1. Take individual moments from games and use them as proof for your point. But avoid seeing these in context. So if a player makes a bad pass just before the opposition score, focus on that, blame him for the goal, and ignore anything else he did in the game. Keep the whole argument incredibly simple, as in, “I don’t know why he perseveres with Denilson, he can’t pass, he can’t tackle, he can’t do anything. Better to play Diaby – at least he’s tall and can get in the way.”
2. Blame individual players - for example, Almunia or Denilson. Make it clear that they are utterly hopeless, and that everyone who has properly watched the game will clearly see that this is the case. It thus becomes an article of faith that anyone who doesn’t see this fact, was not watching the game, and therefore does not have a valid opinion. The awful players (in your eyes) are not fit to wear the shirt, and should never be allowed to play for Arsenal again.
3. Do not allow everyone to have own opinion. Rather than ever admit that there might be multiple opinions about a particular player, event or whole game, insist in all your writing that your opinion is the only possible conclusion that can be reached. Anyone who can’t see it is an idiot. A one line put down for someone speaking up for a player you are slagging off is the best way to deal with alternative perspectives. Your view is that it is possible to see the world through a singular pair of eyes. In which case anyone who disagrees is clearly not seeing the world as it should be. (Which is why it is also important to develop an incredibly pompous style).
4. Take as a starting point the vision that you know more than the manager, even if you have never managed a team, and never won the league title. Likewise take also as a starting point the fact that your views are not being put into effect as proof that the manager has lost it. Since there is only one right vision of the game, and you are expressing it, the manager is, by clear extension, a dope. Clearly you must know more about the players’ abilities than the manager even though you don’t see the players in training, because you are critical of the manager. In effect you have to take the vision that everything can be judged from the game. This has to be self-evident. What you must therefore deny is that a match can be part of the development of a side. So if you were there watching the first games of Bergkamp or Pires or Henry you would say, “they are rubbish, they can’t score, they can’t pass”, because if you watch those first games (in Pires’ case most of the first season) you will not see the players they became. Becoming and developing are not permissible. Everything is to be judged on the game today. If it is not right today, the player must go.
5. If the manager gets it right, argue that he should have done it before (on the grounds that you have been telling him). This again is part of the argument about being against development – if the manager believes that a player can develop and become better and better, you will not allow that. Since no one is right all the time, the manager will make mistakes, but since you are against all development, anyone who plays for the club and is not perfect has to go.
6. Never admit you were wrong. This is easy because you know you are never wrong. In fact, a short-term memory dysfunction is rather good here. Keep it simple. Insult anyone who disagrees with you, since your approach is obviously right. If you were part of the “Song’s not fit to wear the shirt,” brigade after the game against Fulham, just let that memory go, unless you really want to stand up against the crowd and say that Song is still no good. But be careful – go too far and you could look silly!
7. If we win well, say that we were lucky. If the defence shuts out the opposition, say that the opposition attack was weak and that we won’t be ok when we come up against real opposition. In short, when we win always say, “don’t kid yourselves.” Remind everyone of the defeats that have hurt all of us, and focus strongly on them. A good line would be, “You can’t seriously believe that an Arsenal team that can be beaten 3-0 at home is actually going to win anything.” It is important to ignore details.
8. Avoid statistics, especially such things that show in numbers that Denilson touches the ball more than other players, makes more passes than other players, has more successful intercepts than other players. If anyone else quotes stats then say, “you can prove anything with statistics.” Alternatively make some up – for example arguing that our attacking potential is clearly useless, when we are in fact joint top scorers in the league.
9. Always deny that you are part of the doom and gloom mob by saying that you are telling it as it is, and that anyone who suggests otherwise is being silly or stupid, or whatever insult you want. Call any blog that does not agree with you, “an unhealthy love-in”. But do not at any time have anything to do with humour. This is a serious matter and must be discussed seriously at all times.
10. Ignore all economic realities. Ignore the fact that Chelsea are run and owned by a Russian to whom the club is now £700m in debt. Ignore the fact that Manchester United are £750m in debt and have stopped paying interest on their borrowings. Ignore the fact that Liverpool are £350m in debt and the banks want their money back. Ignore the fact that West Ham are living in three month bursts as they wait every quarter for the courts in Iceland to decide how much longer they can live. Ignore the fact that a coup, economic downturn or simple bout of plain old boredom could leave Manchester City as much on the scrap heap as Portsmouth. Ignore all these and other economic truths, and insist that the only way to win anything is by buying some of the top players of the moment at current prices.
Now toddle off and write your blog.
(c) Tony Attwood 2009
almunia is shit and was at fault for the bindippers goal. Why shouldn’t I say that? He should never be wearing an Arsenal shirt. He is by far one of the worst goalkeepers in the premier league
Its quite mastery to me how those people, always find something to complain about. Few weeks ago we had (on our Arsenal-Bosnia forum) fight about Wenger, and they came with theory how Graham was a way better than Le Boss, when I gave tables and showed that under AW never fall under 4th, and with Graham we had some “less bright” seasons, their argument is “truth is only what I say”.
Second irritating thing is that they never say anything about games we win. They keep silent, and if asked why, they say we dont want have verbal orgasms because minor wins over “low graded” teams.
If we beat Everton, its low graded team, if Chel$ea drop points against them, its only because there are no “weak teams” in EPL.
Hartwick89
“I say for the dissenters, complainers et al just provide the logic and reason and allow for proper debate and maybe at the end of it we can agree to disagree.”
I agree but you very rarely get beyond a simplistic argument based on suppositions lacking any in-depth facts.
Simply the anti-support is the biggest danger to AW’s great project. Yes there are times when you wonder why he hasn’t done this or that or played him when you would have played someone else.
That will always be right for reasonable discussion. What you get though is so & so is shit or you get stupid derogatory nicknames. Support Wenger & you get accused of being “rose tinted” & “aknb” etc etc.
I have been going to the Arsenal since 1956 & I have known quite a few players over the years, albeit not recently. The one thing any player would tell you is that confidence is the most important part of the game. It can make an average player brilliant but lack of it makes the greatest poor.
At the moment we have very many young players, who are in a very competitive industry. To get into a top 10 PL team you have to be pretty exceptional footballers. To play for the current Arsenal team is another level up. They are under pressure & need our support at all times, not a battering even after a good performance, eg Denilson (who is top top quality believe me).
So for me you either support Arsenal, taking the good with the bad, or at this particular juncture you deserve anything that the legendry Frank , at ACLF, can throw at you. He is an Arsenal hero in my book.
I’m playing Devil’s Avocado here but I do feel there are some valid points that get lost in between the binary opposition of the AKBs and D&G IKBs. One of the problems is that the more the D&G’s slag and slate, dismiss and grate the more the many of the AKBs harden their stance and go too far to the opposite.
Any regular here will know I am throughly pro-Wenger but I do feel there are issues that get a little lost in the tug of war.
For example, I hate the fact that most D&Gs manage to completely overlook the amazing achievement of taking the club into a new stadium whilst keeping us in the top 4 and managing to genuinely challenge for several trophies. This deserves enormous respect but in the minds of the D&Gs is reduced to irrelevance because they are angry we have not actually won anything for 5 years.
What gets lost in the backlash to this lack of respect, is that there is a decent and reasonable argument to be had that Wenger could have sacrificed his principles just a little and fleshed out the club with a just a few more established, key players. I see much talent coming through but little in the way of cover for our central defence or a DM to challenge/cover for Song.
In a weird way, though we have had more injuries than any other club this season, we have been lucky. Any injuries to Gallas, Vermaelen or Song could yet derail our season and, having sold Adebayor and Toure for considerable money, it is definitely arguable that he should have done a little more to strengthen.
Another interesting fact is how football fans have changed in attitude – the culture of expectation is an ugly beast. Look at Czech’s and Chelsea’s treatment for their draw on the weekend. Patience is thinner than ever these days and even great managers or players are only as good as their last game.
On a separate point I once wrote into Le Grove to complain at the fact that it was ok for several people to refer to Wenger as a c*nt but unacceptable for me to take polite issue with it. My comment though reasonably put and without attacking anyone was not printed. I then asked why this was, especially given that the site claimed to be “A site you can have an opinion, not get one”.
I was by return accused of not being a ‘real Arsenal fan and had probably never been to a game’ and then told that my comments would find a better home elsewhere.
Le Grove where you can have any opinion you want so long as it agrees with theirs!
If I may take the reply above by Gooner Michael, as a way of trying to explain what I am saying…
GoonerMichael said
almunia is shit and was at fault for the bindippers goal. Why shouldn’t I say that? He should never be wearing an Arsenal shirt. He is by far one of the worst goalkeepers in the premier league
What I want to try and clarify is that I absolutely have no wish to stop people saying pretty much anything they want, as long as it is not illegal. So I have no desire to stop that statement, and I have certainly allowed it through onto the site.
My point (and it is after all just my point of view) is that it would be more helpful to an Arsenal supporter such as myself if that point were made as an debating point, or an argument, rather than a statement.
I personally don’t think he is the worst in the league, but on what basis are we arguing here? Saves made? Goals let in which others would have saved? Statistics? What?
And that really was the point of my article. To explain this further I will use an example from my own writing NOT because I think I am God’s gift to literature, but because I don’t want to implicate anyone else in making my point. Everyone can speak for themselves.
I argued throughout last season that the criticism of Denilson was wrong, and I explained why, analysing the way he stood off players and seemed to have an extraordinary ability to know where the ball would be after the opposition player touched it. As a result, I argued, seeing Denilson in terms of tackles made (for example) was completely wrong, because he was playing in a different way.
My point is, that is an argument, which can be argued against, and counter points can be put. As the debate continued last season I even spent one game doing nothing but watch Denilson – even when he wasn’t near the ball. OK it screwed up my enjoyment of the whole game, but it was worthwhile to explore the point.
That’s part of the point I am making. The other point is that we should allow Wenger time to develop players – and if you want an example of why, look at Song. He is now fast turning into one of the top players in the EPL. At the start of the season before last when I wrote a piece in Highbury High, saying that he would become one of the great players, I was laughed at, but on the grounds that “you obviously weren’t at Fulham mate”.
What I am trying to do is widen the debate, but I am never trying to stop other people being part of this or any other debate.
All I want is a debate which goes beyond announcements and statements.
Dear Tony is The Problem –
what a marvelous and concise post. Assuming you are one of the standard-bearing stalwarts of Le Grove, you have made the remarkable achievement of proving one of the central points about the D&G band that populate Le Grove: that they make points as facts and provide nothing of substance to back them up. We could all play at that game, but it isn’t very productive – Le Grove is shit and you’re a muppet.
Easy see?
Jonny,
You make a valid point but you have put up a decent example for reasoned discussion.
I happen to share your concerns re the CBs & Song. At the moment we have Senderos & Sylvestre as back up, with Djourou injured. Now they both have their faults but are experienced internationals, who for the moment are prepared to be squad players. Can you better players than them, to not play? It very much looks like Senderos will be off in January, so I would be very much expect him to be replaced & if Sol is showing anything like, in training, he could make an ideal stopgap, being available for all competitions.
This is a long term project so it makes no sense to put too many ok players in front of those who can be outstanding. The mystical thing is just how AW has got many so youngsters into the team, since 2006. Young players who can go on to be the very best. They have had to learn under pressure & criticism. All that & we have comfortably kept top 4, in spite of ludicrous spending elsewhere, got 83 points in a season & reached the later stages of the CL.
That is a major miracle, football wise, so I think you have to accept all the package, as it is, to see where it can take us even though there are no guarantees.
You see a topic of reasonable discussion but you know & I know that is not what you get from the anti-support.
I think I quite like to be the problem.
It takes me back to my school days, when I have a distinct memory of being told in an A level English class, “it is not socio-economic basis of the society in which Wordsworth lived that is the problem, Attwood, it is you that is the problem.”
Mind you the same guy also said on one of my school reports, “What this boy does to the English language should be a criminal offence” and I then wrote that on the front of my essay book and produced an essay which analysed a society in which specific types of writing are criminalised.
I want Le Grove to be there. I love the fact that we have the internet and blogs and that we can all have our say. And if some idiot in government or in Arsenal or anywhere else ever wanted to start trying to shut Le Grove or any other legit (by which I mean non-racist etc) blog down I would (even at my advanced age) be up on the barricades with them, defending their right to say what they want.
Tumi: From one Arsenal fan to another, I SALUTE YOU. Keep up your support. I support you!
Mikey, Colonel Custard (or did you say Mustard), Oz-gooner: You see supportting a team is best left to those who really understand what SUPPORT really means. It doesn’t mean disect; Neither does it mean reprimand. It doesn’t mean berate; Neither does it mean denigrate. It doesn’t mean over-criticize; Neither does it mean demoralise. It most certainly DOES NOT mean Hate. According to Dictionary.co.uk, Support means:
1. transitive verb – To bear the weight of, especially from below.
2. transitive verb – To hold in position so as to keep from falling, sinking, or slipping.
3. transitive verb – To be capable of bearing; withstand:
4. transitive verb – To keep from weakening or failing; strengthen:
5. transitive verb – To provide for or maintain, by supplying with money or necessities.
6. transitive verb – To furnish corroborating evidence for:
7. transitive verb – To aid the cause, policy, or interests of:
8. transitive verb – To argue in favour of; advocate:
9. transitive verb – To endure; tolerate:
10. transitive verb – To act in a secondary or subordinate role to (a leading performer).
Dictionary.com on its own part has these two interesting definitions worthy of note:
2. to sustain or withstand (weight, pressure, strain, etc.) without giving way; serve as a prop for.
3. to undergo or endure, esp. with patience or submission; tolerate.
So Dictionary.com, therefore, describes a SUPPORTER as:
1. a person or thing that supports.
2. an adherent, follower, backer, or advocate.
It defines a FAN as: “an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport” Origin – short for ‘Fanatic’.
Now according to me, a FAN Supports irrespective of changing fortunes, ie, Win, Lose or Draw.
So guys, no where does it say “Fair Weather” or “Glory Hunting”. You really need to decide which you want to be; a Fan/Supporter or Fair Weather/Glory Hunter. If the latter, someone already suggested ManShitty or Chavski (those ones have plenty of plastic fans already).
But to be an Arsenal Fan, you must be in love with an aesthetic way of playing football and a durable sustainace of the club, not just after silverware. great when we win, fine when we draw and not-the-end-of-the-world when we lose. Got it? Thank you.
Tony well played
Can we have a 101 course on being a ‘baa-ist’
I actually see what could make D&G happy.I mean, I hear them saying, there is nothing against Wenger,but only about his policy, if he would adjust it than they will support him. And those are only little things AW have to do to make it
1) to buy Shiva as replacement for Almunia
2) to buy some big tall defenders from some American basketball team
3) to buy some handball players (probably from German or Spanish league, they rule that sport lately) in forward whose shoot percent would be about 90% per a game
But what I don’t see is how it can make Arsenal be more successful in EPL. In circus as Freak show I do, but for EPL I really don’t see point in it.
Tony, interesting and amusing article but you are missing the main point. There are blogs which are not from Arsenal supporters but set up by supporters of other teams to undermine Arsenal, the manager and the team. Met a guy who had taken out an Arsenal Red membership who admitted that he used to support Spurs, his story was interesting and I think was too pertinent to be made up. He and several others had set up a blog (he didn’t tell me which one) with the following purpose:
1. Couldn’t beat Arsenal so better to undermine the support of the team
2. Target no 1 was Wenger – he figured (rightly I believe) that Wenger was the main difference between a top team and mid table (especially with a limited budget)
3. Prey on negativity – it is always more popular than positive news – just watch any news broadcast
4. Undermine the principles and approach of the team and manager
5. Feed the anti Arsenal media – phone ins, press, etc with arguments purporting to show disillusionment from “died in the wool” Arsenal supporters (no trophy for 4 yrs, supporters questioning Wenger, booing of players in the stadium, and so on).
6. Make money – pay per click etc
7. Its more fun essentially winding up Arsenal fans than endless and pointless discussions on your own teams shortfallings.
Many football fans are not too bright (another fact they prey on) but this guy was very articulate, he knew what they were doing and had a clear strategy. I asked why the switch of allegiance from the Totts of all teams. He said that one of the requirements was to watch all televised Arsenal games. They needed to pick the holes in each performance or name the usually young player not yet at the top level that could be pilloried. He said after some time he basicly appreciated the football better than what he’d been watching for years and had gone from grudging acceptance of the quality, especially in Europe CL to admiration for what was happening on the pitch (win, lose or draw). He came to the conclusion that the quality of the football was more important than the ultimately tribal allegience he’d been functioning on.
My own thoughts on the D&G’s is that much of it is a wind up. Although it has unfortunately had the desired effect of poisoning some of the support. Better to ridicule it (as you do well Tony) or ignore it – don’t feed them with comments or clicks.
Sometimes the EPL is a bit of a freak show.
Case in point, although it’s not really the EPL:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/dec/15/sven-goran-eriksson-lawyers-money
And AW gets heckled for being a ‘businessman’ by Platini, yet this charlatan carry’s on and people still think of him as a football manager.
If I wanted to be a Doomer, I’d combine a love of football, with any team managed by Eriksson.
The funny thing is that those of us who don’t fall into the D&G ranks, gladly embrace the labels they pass on us. I am happy to be an Arsene Knows Brigadier. I am happy to be a blighted optimist.
Tony here makes it clear the point of his blog is to support Wenger and Arsenal.
But they always try to run away from the correct tags for their attitudes and behaviour.
So, deep down they know there’s something wrong with what they’re doing.
lol just look at this comment from Vital Arsenal :
Arshavin was a shadow for most of the game, put his boot behind one lucky shot (off the post) and based on the qualities of the rather small player, he wouldn’t get a game for Portsmouth. Arshavin – completely overrated.
djdutts
the funny part is i saw this comment just after glancing through Tony’s article and his comment is kinda proof of this article
.
Anyone fancy setting up a Tottenham blog which worries about the fact that Arry wrecked West Ham, Southampton and Portsmouth and might be doing the same economically at White Hart Lane.
Actually no, I don’t think I want them to realise that truth. Better stay silent and watch the crash.
Well Jack I have seen the game a few times again and it really is surprisingly when you look at Arshavin and see how much work he did in the second half in running around to prevent the Liverpool defenders an easy life at the back. He even got a (harsh) yellow card because he made a few fauls on them. He once got caught out and after that he was so embarresed with himself he never stopped running around working his socks off.
Indeed just an example on how those twats look at the game. They haven’t got a clue.
I’ve said that when they ran out of arguments they will make a comment such as “u never been to an Arsenal game so ure not real Arsenal fan” and so on….
What they’re saying is stupid and borderline incrimination talk.
Does a person who live half way across the world but is dying for a live match at the ems or cannot afford a ticket not real fans??
Take the fact that most of us who never saw a live match (I saw Arsenal once when the toured the Asia in 1999) see EVERY Arsenal game live somewhere I’d say the argument sucks.
It’s like saying you can’t be a real Kung Fu fan because you’re not from China….pretty stupid huh?
Loving something meant sticking and loving it through thick and thin.
Arsenal is a club for everyone who CHOOSE to support it….
One of the best Tony!
Anyone for Melo!!! Hasn’t he just won an award
Jack;
It’s from the same people who slacked Wenger off for buying an unknown Belgian defender……..another thing they had to swallow real hard.
I really wonder and am looking forward for their reactions when we win things….
One of the common D&G arguments centres around the costs to go and see the team at the Ems (based on the fact we have the most expensive tickets in the country and it costs £4 a pint, the food is shit etc).
They seem to think that the club has lots of money and Wenger has created a model which allows us to buy cheap and sell players for profit – thus benefiting the clubs owners at the expense of the fans.
The cry is basically “It’s our club and we want it back”.
The hilarious thing about this is they want Arsenal to spend big on players thereby putting the club in financial jeopardy. I cannot see how this will lower ticket prices – it merely leaves us vulnerable to rising debts.
I am also sure they all wanted us to move to a new bigger stadium but having got that they don’t seem to realise the financial constraints this incurs.
If we were to sign one mega-superstar and pay his exorbitant £150K wages this would, in all likelihood, destabilise the club and wreck the wage structure. What if he played less well than the other players – would they demand more come contract negotiation time?? And how would any of that help keep the costs down?
In short they want the moon on a stick – a club that wins ALL the time with a state of the art stadium, which charges peanuts for tickets and can afford the very best and most expensive players in the world.
It was probably the excess of the Abramo-Chelsea era that kickstarted this unsustainable and ridiculous way of thinking but with rumours of £1billion Man Utd takeover om the horizon it seems it is here to stay.
I honestly don’t know if I could support this club if they took the Usmanov route. It holds almost no appeal to me.
@Jack Warner fan
I take issue with your comment – something other posters have an issue with is statements without justification – just like you have just done. Great article Tony, loved every bit of it. Problem I have with Jacks comment is that I am a regular poster on Vital Arsenal and it is renowned for being one of the most articulate, funny, and newsworthy blogs around.
Tim Stillmans match reports are a delight, and the site is staunchly pro-arsenal has nothing but respect for Wenger and his achievments.
DjDutts is not a commentor I know from vital arsenal, the nature of the site means that anyone from any other vital site can comment on any other blog, so with his name not giving anything away it is impossible to tell if he is even an Arsenal fan – and based on my experience there, I am 99% sure he is not.
Almost all the commenters and forum goers are intelligent and reasoned. It might be worth reading the content of the site before tarnishing us all with the same brush. Cheers.
GoonerMicheal’s comment above about Almunia “almunia is shit and was at fault for the bindippers goal. Why shouldn’t I say that? He should never be wearing an Arsenal shirt. He is by far one of the worst goalkeepers in the premier league” perfectly show the D&G mentality.
Hands up anyone here who thinks Almunia is top-class? I dont see any hands. We all know Almunia is dodgy to say the least. He certainly was at fault for Liverpool’s goal. But if you take last weekends action as a starting point then Petr Cech is certainly a far worse keeper than Almunia. The fact is that the League is full of worse keepers than Almunia. Would we like to see a world-class keeper at Arsenal? Of course, but who? Everyone loved Mannone when he came into the side and was brilliant at Fulham but then he cost us goals in virtually every other game he played and cost us a win at West Ham. I even saw comments the other day on a blog saying Fabianski should “DEFINATELY” be the No.1 because he was “FAR BETTER” than Almunia. Based on what evidence I would like to know?
And there is that “he isnt fit to wear an Arsenal shirt” stuff again. Comments like that cant be taken seriously since Alex Song was the most recent person that everyone claimed “wasnt fit to wear the Arsenal shirt”.
I always wonder what the D&G’s would have done to Tony Adams. Tony Adams was AWFUL his first few full seasons, and fully deserved all the donkey taunts he got everywhere across the country. But people were patient and he turned into one of the great defenders. Patience.
Debate is fine. I personally think Traore was poor on Sunday, Almunia was at fault for the goal, Walcott was invisible, Nasri was weak, and Arshavin was nowhere in the 1st half. Are any of those players therefore “unfit” to wear the Arsenal shirt? Of course not. Are those players still better than just about any other players in England? Of course they are, because we wouldnt be in 3rd place (2nd if we win our game in hand) if our players were as bad as some make out.
@Paul C.
Good point regarding Almunia – he’s not shit, but he is definitely not the best keeper we’ve had. I think it would be fairer to say that Fabianski is a talented young keeper, and is probably due a shot between the sticks after coming back from injury.
Because to be honest, it’s not like he could do much worse now is it?
Manuel was solid last season, this season he seems to have been affected by personal problems and his form just doesn’t seem the same, kicking is wayward and his decision making is a little odd at times. Judging by Arsene’s previously ruthless attitude towards goal keeping mistakes, expect Fabianski to come in for Manuels almost inevitable “thigh strain”
In short they want the moon on a stick – a club that wins ALL the time with a state of the art stadium, which charges peanuts for tickets and can afford the very best and most expensive players in the world.
Exactly.And they’d probably still beat the manager over the head with the same stick
wow, this post definitely struck a chord. for the most part, i think it’s a good example of what reasoned debate should be.
mark–i wouldn’t mind having the moon on a stick, either! sounds pretty cool. but to be serious, i think arsenal already does w/ arsene at the helm.
arsene has the intelligence and ability to be anything he wants. he could’ve done anything and succeeded. the fact that he’s a football coach, let alone at arsenal, is something that we all should be thankful for. whenever you are in doubt, just think about all those fans of teams that have been coached by harry redknapp.
oh, the lawsuit against the dutch FA is pure genius.
@Mark
Amazingly they want all this and more. In my short time commenting and trying to be reasonable on certain blogs you get nothing but a brick wall of flak for suggesting anything other than the common opinion in the comments.
They actually expect – even considering the almost limitless investment our rivals enjoy – The Arsenal to win every single game regardless of circumstances and are blind to the reasons for failure.
Whoever noted that every other player on the planet seems to be the answer to our problems pretty much nailed it. It’s amazing how little talent the doom and gloom merchants see in our players despite us being well in the hunt for the title.
I seem to have been in moderation for a lifetime!
If anyone responds to my points I’ll come back. But before I go I just want to reiterate that Vital Arsenal is a fantastic blog and has a good bunch of regular commenters who are the furthest from D&G merchants.
There’s the occasional bad egg but they often leave after being unable to respond with more than grunts and whining to intelligent debate.
Also Tony – first time reading your blog, I think it’s marvellous – great set of commenters too. Good work. Just off to get my fill of ‘holic
From the guardian:
Wenger added: “I learn everyday, and that is quite interesting. I learn a lot about myself as well, but the problem has always been you are facing people who want to do well in their life, and your job is to try to help them achieve something. That has not changed – today the basic human problems are still the same.”
yeah. this is what i mean.
Tony@ We will not decend that low to set up a Tiny Totts blog. We love football and respect ourselves far too much to engage in cheap trickery. We are upright! We are the Arsenal personified!!
all the people who make the ‘not fit to wear the shirt’, i wonder what theyre wearing when they say it.
great post tony.
Good point Diamandave,£24m well spent.
Has anyone EVEN seen Charmak play??esp with all this hype.
Arsenal fans just wanna see some brazilian flair!
Almunia is rubbish though!HOW DID ARSENAL MISS OUT ON GIVEN??????????
new to this blog !!
Prob gonna get shot down here.
I like what you have written. It can be linked with another blog that I post on. I actually like your views……. and on the other blog I am pro wenger and think your points back me up.
However, you have 83 posts for the day and the other blog prob over 600 !!! is this blog new or not attracting bloggers. If neither, then it seems there ar emore people unhappy than happy at the moment.
It seems there are only two types of Arsenal fans: those who complain about the team and those who complain about the other fans.
AFC for Life
While size is not everything, I think you should note that on many sites a lot of those 600 comments are one liners – like “Great one” etc, while here we tend to attract people who have more of an argument to put.
The readership of this site was 120,000 different people last month – but it is hard to compare with many other sites as often they dont declare their readership in this way.
Tim: I was expecting that comment from you and you did not disappoint me. Great to know that I know you as well as I thought I did.
@Tony
Alexa.com
Tommo – spot on, that is exactly my thinking as well. I thought Mannone got an extra long audition when Almunia’s was “unfit” as it was and Fabianski might have been in the side as well had he not gotten injured as well. Almunia is on his final stages I would say. AW knows what good goalkeeping looks like but also knows that finding good goalkeepers, especially ones that can do well in England, is tough. I like Shay Given , but I dont rate him as highly as many other people do. Robert Green gets some good press, but the guy has made some awful blunders in his time (he seems to play blinders against us however).
I dont see any OBVIOUSLY great keepers out there. Lots of hit and hopes.
(By the way, to me this is the difference between D&G’s and other “fans”, it is almost impossible to have a sensible debate like this with the D&G’s, who seem to think our players are crap – except Cesc, Arshavin and Vermaelen – and all other players are great)
aka if you read “le groove” you are one of them
@LRV
It’s just funny to me. I write every day and each article is how I feel on that day. Sometimes I’m down, most of the times I’m up. Which of the dualistic, simplistic camps am I in then?
I’d say neither and I’d even go so far as to suggest that both folks, the ones who are down on the squad and the ones who are down on the other fans, as handwringing.
Do you really think you’re going to convince a person who has a negative outlook on Arsenal that they should be more positive? I’ve tried and I still have readers who come on, week in and week out and say the same negative stuff.
Conversely, do I really think that I’m going to change the people who want to call some other fans names like “not real” or “doom and gloom?” I’ve tried that as well and still the camp is divided.
I have started reading a lot of other blogs, blogs that are wider than just Arsenal and I have started to take a much more open, fun, and sort of irreverent approach. It’s football for fark’s sake, it should be something fun! That’s what we fell in love with, I HOPE!
The point is that there are a lot of fans who don’t fall into either of these two simple camps.
Does that mean that I’m always fun and irreverent? No, I’m a dude like everyone else and yes, I get down when I see that Almunia has pretty consistently been, well, erm… not, uhh, good, this year. I was nervous watching the Liverpool match and after I was down on Almunia, Diaby and Denilson because I thought they had poor matches.
So what? According to this particular article I’m a doom and gloomer, because this article is a tautology which reduces supporters to one of two categories and then denounces tautologies.
IRONY.
Ultimately, I really don’t care if others want to try to cetegorize my blog, my fandom, or me. It’s something I got used to, as an American Goonah, a long time ago.
I think it was the Zen Philosopher Basho who once said “I am what I am.”
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to “toddle off” and write my little blog, I’ve had an article kicking its way out of my skull for about 4 hours.
after all the talk and arguments, I’d like to sum up a fact:
Arsenal is 3rd with a game in hand, potentially would go to 2nd with that win being 3 points behind the so called unbeatable rich team.
A “realist” would take this fact and go with it.
PS: as things stand, where had the hype around Melo gone? Is he a better player than Song now? At Song’s age was he this good?
Well, because of your undivided support for Denilson even though crap I watched a replay of the game to review my view about him. Nothing has changed, he just don’t have what it takes to play for the Arsenal. The great Denilson was on the ground more often than the passes he gave. He specialises in backwards and sideways passes, passes that takeaway any counterattacking possibilities. He was one of the average players on the pitch including Walcott. He plays because he’s Arsene’s favourite but nothing else.
I’m happy Diaby is back and will eventually keep him out of the team. I can see him leaving in a year or two because he can’t compete with the likes of Coquelin and Eastmond when they start getting games.
@ Tim: It’s one thing to complain about the team in a reasoned, rational manner. It’s another to insist that each and every player on the team is rubbish/lightweight, and the manager has lost it/is stubborn/stingy. Even Fabregas has been getting stick for “not being a real leader” and “whining about tackles”.
Tim;
Your writings, at least here, to me don’t fit the D&G criteria.
And people here do criticize players, we just don’t do it every hour.
It’s just to me, there are many many worse players than Denilson. And people say 21 is not young anymore, pffff….
I personally always give benifit of a doubt to Arsenal players. Nobody plays great every game but moaners never rate them when they do.
And we all know Almunia, no one suggests he’s great. But we will never say we won’t win things with him cause it’s a sign of loser who already give up…and it’s one prediction in which we chose not to believe.
Players like Denilson, Diaby, or Song always get bashed, many times wrongly so. At least Denilson this term had produced the goods often when he plays. And to me Ramsey is at the same stage as those I mentioned, but while the others are labeled not good enough Ramsey aren’t….to me they are all good young players with potential, yes there’s still potential there…
But enough, I can go on and on all day but I will now watch Arshavin’s goal again and prepare myself for hopefully a comfortable win tomorrow.
DON’T YOU BASH SONG, I LOVE HIM LIKE A WIFE OR A REALLY NICE MOTORCYCLE
Tim – based on what I have seen of your writing I would never, ever class you as a D&G merchant. Like we have been saying, the D&G camp seem to be down on players and events even after we win games, or even when we are high in the table challenging for stuff. They are the types that think most of our players are poor, and all other players are great. And they call themselves things like “realists” and “real fans” and think everyone else is in some kind of fantasy land.
I think most of us have no problem whatsoever with someone like, say, Barbados above, thinking Denilson is poor and Diaby is a better option. That is opinion and as long as it is expressed thoughtfully, and with reasons, then we can debate and have fun with that. Not all will agree with any point. I disagree with it and think Denilson was one of our better players against Liverpool but hey, that’s just my opinion.
The D&G’s seem to think Arsenal have a god-given right to win ALL THE TIME and if we dont it has nothing to do with the fact that other teams are also trying to win (perhaps with greater resources) and everything to do with our crap players and crap manager.
Barbados is a notorious Troll who’s been pumping out his anti-Denilson mantra under various avatars over at ACLF, for longer then I’ve been blogging, I’ve heard.
Unfortunately he won’t give you anything other then his impeccable opinion. No description, video or stats on actual tackles. No passes, no mistakes.
I guess he/it fits into a totally different kind of category of fan to the two so painstakingly described above.
I once saw a video at an exhibition by an Israeli architect in Berlin. The video was of an incorrectly advertised architectural exhibition in Tel Aviv. All the great & and good turned out in their Sunday finest. The red curtains went back, and what was revealed was an exhibition of the horrors of peoples lives under The Wall, detailing in specific, incontrovertible detail the expansion and agenda of the settlements. Of course the guests were outraged. Not at the content of the exhibition, but at the fact that they’d been brought to the show under false pretences.
You can show a bigot where their behaviour has exposed themselves, but they won’t admit it.
Not sure if everyone will get the analogy there, it is a little vague. For those more curious, check out Jeff Winters home page and his reply to Ole Gunner pointing out his hypocrisy.
http://www.jeffwinterentertainmentandmedia.co.uk/votw/0910028.php
I wonder if they’re still selling French Fries in Dublin?
Probably.
Quite so ‘The Law’.
Barbados you seem close minded on the subject. Could it be that you are judging him too soon in his career?
Le Grove today again slated Denilson but this time using statistics to back themselves up. This is hilarious – last year statistics suggested Denilson was one of the most involved players in Arsenal’s football. He carried the tag of lightweight because he was not given time to settle and because the media wrote him off. He was 19!
Le Grove and other sites dismissed those statistics with the usual wave of the hand (you can prove anything with statistics) but are now attacking him for his statistical performance this year, in spite of the fact his statistics are rubbish because he’s only played 8 fecking games!
Ashley Cole was what 22-23 when he rejoined Arsenal? But Denilson has been written off comprehensively by fans such as yourself, just as many had/have with Song.
I am pretty confident that Denilson is going to go on to be a truly great footballer, he just needs some patient support. He is far from a bad player at present and coveted by a number of high profile managers.
If the D&G’s had had their way Song would never have made it into the team – he is currently one of the best defensive midfielders in the country and looks better and better as time goes by though still I have to listen to him being written off as ‘too slow’.
This all goes back to people thinking they know better than the professionals who run the club – I love my football but I am not proud enough to be unable to admit my knowledge is comparatively lacklustre.
This is the first time I have read this site, it is a breath of fresh air !!. The link was sent to me by a mate and I immediately thought the subject matter was Le G***e, but lets remember life is full of people whose cup is half empty as opposed to half full. Like everyone else I have my favourite players and those who leave me scratching my head, but as a coach myself at grass roots I recognise that there are players who look excellent in training during the week, but have difficulty transferring that to matches on a weekend, making the manager look like a chump. As someone said before we are 3rd in the table (fact) despite a horrendous series of injuries let’s enjoy it for what it is