By Tony Attwood
In the discussion columns this week there was a question to me, along the lines, “What happens to Untold Arsenal, when Mr Wenger retires or resigns or is kicked out?”
And linked to it was the secondary question, what happens to me, as an Arsenal supporter?
Arsenal, as I have said so many times, has been in my blood for almost 60 years so not supporting Arsenal would seem a strange thing to do. Although there have been times when I have been annoyed and angry with Arsenal.
The Billy Wright era was an awful experience – and an endless reminder that Arsenal had once been great but were no longer in that position. The end of the Bertie Mee era was awful – with gems like Brady in the team we spent time bottom of the league.
I suppose the only consolation in some periods of Arsenal awfulness was that Tottenham Hotspur and Manchester United made fleeting visits to the second division – and we didn’t. Which is why we are now edging towards an utterly extraordinary 100 years since we were elected to the first division in 1919.
But I have had problems with Arsenal even when doing comparatively well. The Rioch season was mind numbingly awful to me, the way he had the team playing was just not what I wanted to see, and I met his dismissal with happiness only tempered by the fact that I had never heard of Mr Wenger.
So what will happen when Mr Wenger goes? I guess I will carry on supporting Arsenal as now – and Untold will carry on as now. Unless of course we do something utterly stupid (in my opinion of course).
And what could be stupid or immoral enough to have me close down Untold and not renew the season ticket?
It is hard to say, but here’s a few things that would have me thinking very seriously indeed:
a) the sort of financial support deal that Notts County, Leeds United, Birmingham City, Portsmouth, Rangers and the like have gone in for of late. Money that may or most probably may not exist, coming from people who may or may not be that rich, and absolutely no transparency and quite possibly a load of crookedness en route.
b) The appointment of Harry Redknapp as manager – or come to that the appointment of the current manager of Newcastle. Jose Mourinho I could take, whereas Benitez would have me edging out.
c) The decision to try and rival Chelsea, Man City and the rest in transfers. All that will happen is that instead of offering £30m for a player we would offer £40m and Man City would offer £50m and so on. Unless we were, like Man City, so wallowing in money that it would just make no odds what we paid, we would always lose out. £100m for a player plus £30m a year for six years. Yup – quite possibly, but it is obscene and I don’t want to be part of that.
d) Outright support for Fifa, Uefa and the FA being expressed by the board.
e) Support for the club from the press. I always remember that after the conclusion of the Unbeaten Season when I just stood there at the end of the Leicester match, tears streaming down my face, just endlessly applauding the team for the greatest footballing feat I had ever witnessed, the next day the Guardian (or was it the Observer, I can’t remember) ran a piece about how Arsenal weren’t that good really and calling it an unbeaten season was an insult to Preston North End. If the press came out and supported Arsenal, then I would start getting seriously concerned.
f) Ground sharing with Tottenham, Leyton Orient or West Ham. No, no, no, never. No matter what.
g) The board paying themselves dividends.
h) The removal of the statue of Herbert Chapman.
i) Sacking Mr Wenger.
j) The achievement of actually managing to serve a cappuccino that roughly tastes like it. It is not that I wouldn’t be happy, it is just that I would be so bemused I don’t think I would be able to take it.
I am sure there are more, but its nearly time to go back to work, so I will leave it there. But yes, there are some reasons why I would pull out of my support for Arsenal. But not that many.
As for Untold, who knows. We’ll take that issue when it happens.
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The books…
- Woolwich Arsenal: The club that changed football – Arsenal’s early years
- Making the Arsenal – how the modern Arsenal was born in 1910
- “The Crowd at Woolwich Arsenal”: crowd behaviour at the early matches
The sites…
- Referee Decisions - just what are the refs up to this season?
- The weight loss programme: The only guaranteed wayto stay fit
- Looking for a terraced house in Northamptonshire?
- For all your football betting try these Bookmakers with free bets.
Andrei, My partner is from Eastern Europe, My son is a proper little European mongrel. I spend a lot of my time in ex-communist countries. If I have come across as discriminating it is not my intention. Believe it or not we have experienced discrimination in England because of my partners nationality. Not many people in my family marry in to the same nationality.
You have to understand that I look at Gazprom and see it as a platform for political power. which can be perverted by a government.
@Andrei
I am quite interested in the debate you are having with Adam; I hope neither of mind if I ask a question – would it be correct for me to deduce that as there is not yet a legal and business fabric to protect private interests, corruption is therefore uncontrolled and that elements of Gazprom are likely to be up to their necks in such corruption?
That is a question I would like Andrei to take a stab at.
bjtgooner,
I sometimes wonder that with Abramovich selling off Sibneft to the Russian government then legging it to England and gaining a higher profile with his acquisition of Chelsea was more an act of self preservation. considering what happened with Boris Abramovich Berezovsky. Add to that Yukos and its forced sales.
@bjtgooner and @Adam
There are currently two things at play in Russia. First, in this is also true for other xUSSR countries just on a smaller scale is that simply put you have to stay in power in order to survive. To keep your business, your freedom and in many cases your life. Therefore, conducting business on a large scale is only practical (and safe) via goverment controlled entities. Just look at what happened to Yulia Timoshenko in Ukraine when she lost elections. Not that she was innocent – she helped herself and her “team” with billions of $$$. The same is happening now to Michael Saakashvili and his party in Georgia.
Secondsly, and this is specific to Russia when Putin came to power there were multiple buisiness groups fighting tooth and nail to control oil & gas interestes as well as other profitable industries. The majority of population was sliding deeper and deeper into powerty with nobody giving a $!#$%^. The country was simply disintegrating and that threatened existence of the business elite. So Putin was brought to reign in the oligarchs and take goverment control over strategic assets and pacify the populace by sharing some of these riches. What we are seeing now is just continuation of the process. As side effect it produced mega companies powerfull enough to start flexing their musles on the global scale.
@Adam
Agreed. I also suspect Usmanov was happy to try to get out ahead of the posse – the exact make up of the posse might have been interesting.
Anyway, time here for some shut eye. I will check tomorrow & see if Andrei responds.
@Andrei
I don’t think you covered my question re Gazprom & corruption.
@bjtgooner I think using word corruption in this case is misleading. There is rampant corruption at lower and middle goverment level. With Gazprom is just the way to do bisiness – it is different business model. People controlling Gazprom are not stealing from the goverment they own Gazprom through goverment. It is practically impossible to separate goverment and business at this level.
Andrei, Gazprom is a massive company and I don’t think people appreciate just how much clout it has and will continue to gain.
About Bayer AG (aka Bayer 04 Leverkusen), Research “IG FARBEN”&”Fritz ter Meer”.
@Andrei
What gives Gazprom and other Russian companies the right to destroy the environment of northern Asia?
I question Gazprom’s right to the oil that flows through its veins. Those lands were subject to genocide, they should be used as a testament to the tribes and peoples long past, not as part of the war on the environment.
But I could say the same of many companies in many lands.
I would stop supporting Arsenal if they lose the moral high ground.
That’s right doomers/AAA (I’m looking at you Rupert).
I did not know Arsene Wenger’s character in my early years of watching football. I did not know much about football clubs and how they are run or referees and how they are bent. But once I started paying attention, I realised the quality of the club and the quality of the man – Mr Wenger. I support them both and I will continue to do so. Nothing is guaranteed in life I suppose but morality is why I support The Arsenal and Mr Wenger. Also, I enjoy supporting the underdog, the lone wolf.
@Sav You are talking to the wrong person. I’m not PR representative for Gazprom
On the same note what gives Royal Dutch, Chevron and Exxon-Mobile the right to destroy the environment of Central Africa? What gives BP the right to destroy the environment of Mexican Gulf?
@Andrei
No right at all. We all pay for fat cats short sightedness.
I tried a whole year not to follow football and in particular my club Arsenal. On the 2nd Saturday of the next season I found myself standing at the window of a TV shop at 20 to 5 looking for the Arsenal result. The Wright years, the end of the Mee reign, the Neill pain and the on coming gloom after 1991 before Arsene’s arivial.
Unlike most I knew of Arsene’s time at Monaco and was excited at the prospect of him coming to Arsenal.
I feel for Arsene and Boro, they fought against football corruption in France and find themselves fighting the same battle here.
Arsenal is our club Arsene is our manager. They are the best. So why follow any of the rest!
I don’t have a reason for not following Arsenal or for following another club.
@ Sav, you and bjtgooner, who obviously has an alliterative dictionary and can’t leave it alone, have bought into this fictitious edifice known as the AAA. Obviously you two can’t get through life without a villain or two to keep you happy.
Strange that I want Arsenal to win every game which doesn’t fit into AAA criteria.
Perhaps we could discuss the credentials of Mr. Kroenke? Exactly how squeaky clean is he. He’s married to the Walmart owner. Walmart has come in for some heavy criticism for the way it treats its workers. I wonder if Kroenke had a word with his wife being the principled man some of you may think he is.
And no I’m not defending Usmanov and his ilk and I have no wish to upset Andrei but I think corruption is rife in Russia. Putin is no more than a dictator. And yes I lived in Russia and also married a Russian so I have a little understanding of that society.
http://www.thefootballnetwork.net/boards/read/s378.htm?721,13629038,13629097
This is a piece about FFP.
I would love to know what thoughts there are on this.
bjtgooner, do feel free to unleash your incisive scathing wit, others please feel free to comment sensibly.
@rupert
For one little depressive sewer rat with acne and a lisp you really claim to get around, are you sure you are only one rat, not a whole nest?
Just remember that you are the one with the compulsive pontification disorder – it is as if you have to use every debate on this site to back stab the team and the manager, irrespective of the subject being debated. It is as if someone was feeding you cheese to disrupt UA.
I don’t have a lisp my furry friend. That was a little sense of humour, something you maybe devoid of.
I was taught to respect people’s opinions whether they differ from mine or not. It’s not my problem you take pleasure in insulting others.
Perhaps you should read the piece before you reach conclusions.
@Andrei
The concern would be that the mega corruption associated with individuals, who would work in companies like Gazprom, becomes a way of life – it appears appropriate to such individuals to be involved in all sorts of evil and crime just to achieve advancement or financial gain, the lack of law and order in Russia and its former states unfortunately encourages this evil.
While we have more than enough hoods in the UK, the transfer of the mega corrupt into the UK is not desirable – further their involvement in football would not be for the benefit of the game – there would be another agenda.
@rupert (depressive sewer rat with acne but not a lisp)
So when you claimed to have a lisp you were not telling the truth, have there been other occasions when you were economical with the truth?
@ bjt Calm down, dear. If you actually read the exchange between myself and the other poster we were having a little light banter. Do you think I’m the Pope?
Trouble is you see everything through eyes of rage.
You seem obsessed with me. That’s very flattering.
@rupert (depressive sewer rat eith acne but not a lisp)
What a silly rat you are. It is OK by you to back stab our team and manager, when you are called to account you try to retreat behind a false cloak of alleged respect of others. When you are dishonest and get your tail stomped on you stupidly try to claim I am enraged – not the case little rat – I am just enjoying dissecting you.
@Tony
good piece and tickles your senses in this trying period. A few questions maybe you could enlighten us on.
1. what’s with the press vs Arsenal thingy? Any historical track on this? I’ve noticed that it is not confined to just the press, but also the live commentary. Did Arsenal players mess with their wives or what? Thought only Terry and Giggs are primed for that
2. Newcastle manager… I suppose you refer to Pardew. I thought last season and this season (to-date) he did outperform his managerial duties. I personally am fond of the Everton manager… seemed to outperform every season with constrains and limited resources
@ Walter
As a ref, what other forms of bribery, besides monetary, would sway you?
In Asia, bribery is purely monetary, period.
Which brings me to BPL… IMO I’m still on the competency/biased perception rather than the monetary bribery, which I assume most Refs on the take would be in for. Unless there are other forms of bribery which I (assuming I’m a Ref) would not risk taking for.
@ bjt I haven’t backstabbed anybody, merely doubted the brilliance of a manager who’s delivered zilch in seven years.
Doubted a club’s policies, a club that’s sixth richest in the world with an approximate cash surplus of £170 million pounds.
If you wish to ignore some obvious mismanagement at the club that’s your prerogative. I meanwhile will wonder which direction this club is going.
Carry on with your insults, it’s usually a sign of an inferiority complex.
@bjt whereas I agree with you about the evils of corruption in Russia and it’s neighbouring states you also have to consider that our banks didn’t mind engaging in fraud in the form of PPI.
Business, it seems, attracts the greediest sorts, by its very nature, of course.
@rupert
Your version of your own history on UA seems a rather sanitized one, once again economical with the truth, or maybe when one is a nest and not just a rat it is a case of the individual on line not quite sure of what others have squeaked.
@ bjt,I think you’re getting a bit paranoid. I suggest you take a little nap, maybe read a good book and then return refreshed and reconnected to sanity.
@rupert (depressive sewer rat with acne but not a lisp)
Perhaps you take your own advice, otherwise we may to take you to the vet!