On the anniversary of Tottenham’s biggest home defeat to Arsenal we look at how the balance of football in North London has changed.
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Glory, Glory Hallelujah…… by Paul Fowler
After an incredible Sunday afternoon at ‘The Lane’, and two previous close 5-2 derby game defeats, Tottenham supporters are reported in the media to be cock-a-hoop and rightfully crowing after a famous victory over their close rivals, Arsenal, hammering the Gunners 2-1.
For the first time in 19 years it looks odds on that Tottenham will finish above Arsenal at the end of the season and many Tottenham fans believe that this is truly where their club belongs.
As both sets of fans would admit, it has been a long time coming but to erudite students of the game, it has always been there on the horizon, since Tottenham’s League Division 2 championship winning season of 1950 – a division which significantly Arsenal have never won.
Some Tottenham fans and quite a few Sky Sports pundits, not surprisingly believe that Spurs’ current league position justifies their claim to be the top club in London in spite of the claims of West Ham and Fulham, who, in many respect it could be argued, have a better record than Tottenham when it comes to not having won much.
Many Arsenal fans far from satisfied about an increasingly appalling record under Arsene Wenger are crying out for his resignation. They are mortified that their club has only managed UEFA Champions League qualification for the last 16 years or so in succession and that during that time, despite the odd ‘famous’ victory over mediocre opponents such as Inter Milan in 2003 (5-1 away) and Real Madrid in 2006 (first English team to win at the Santiago Bernabeu), they have failed to win the coveted trophy.
They also point to an embarrassing loss in the subsequent final in Paris to Barcelona (hardly a European giant) after their goalkeeper’s late sending off (17 minutes into the match ) and of only being able to hold on to a one nil lead gained by the ten men until the last 13 minutes of the match, and then spinelessly conceding defeat.
Add to that Arsenal’s abysmal recent record of not having won the Premiership title since 2003 ( 13th time, unlucky?) with a unique unbeaten season and the FA cup for only the tenth time in 2005, then it is easy to see why this once great club is in ruins.
Contrast that with the record of their illustrious neighbours, Tottenham Hotspur. Tottenham not only point to a mammoth 12 match unbeaten current run, but also boast a record of not having won the ‘championship’ since 1961 – a mere 51 years.
Furthermore, unlike Arsenal, Spurs only have to look back to 2008 for their last trophy – the League Cup. This recent success means that Tottenham have won the League Cup in all its guises a massive four times as opposed to Arsenal’s paltry two. For Tottenham supporters this statistic tips the balance when football pedants compare Tottenham’s 8 FA Cup wins and 2 Championship wins with Arsenal’s 10 and 13 respectively.
Tottenham’s recent foray into UEFA Champions League football in 2011 brought back those ‘glory, glory’ nights to the Lane, and thrilled neutrals everywhere. After scintillating fight backs against European stalwarts Young Boys and FC Twente respectively, the coup de ‘grass’ was a fantastic 1-0 victory in Italy against AC Milan, thus setting up a mouth-watering Quarter final tie with Spanish giants Real Madrid.
After two hard fought matches, many observers commented on how well Tottenham had acquitted themselves,and their manager at that time, Harry Rednapp, gave a rare, exclusive interview to Sky Sports. Tottenham lost 5-0 on aggregate, but quite clearly they had graced the competition and were very unlucky not to win it.
Now, the Tottenham fans truly believe they are back where they should be and that no one can dispute the evidence. This inherent belief in the sanctity and status of their club is apparent from the collective response of their supporters to Sunday’s derby victory which has been calm and restrained as befits supporters who expect to win such games.
Indeed not for Tottenham fans the hyperbole which often accompanies the reactions of so called ‘lower’ clubs when they manage to topple a giant. Not for Spurs fans the smug disdain for those clubs in the league below them; and not for Tottenham fans, the facile suggestion that they are a ‘one man team’ when people point to new Eurostar Gareth Bale’s goal scoring contribution as opposed to that of Robin Van Persie for Arsenal last season.
The Tottenham players are convinced to a man that the ‘glory times’ are back at the Lane. Many cite the recent revival of Chas and Dave on tour, and the more philosophical point to straightforward logic; namely, the club that has won fewer trophies is ipso facto more likely to win more trophies in the future when compared with the club which has won more because the latter cannot win all the time especially when the former wins the trophies. (If you see what I mean).
It is no surprise then that the football world now looks forward to a new, vibrant Spurs winning at the very least four trophies next season and continuing its remarkable development as both club and team since 1961. The sheer chasm in class between the two teams on Sunday just could not be ignored, and, unfortunately for Arsenal fans, would point to a new era in English and European football.
‘And the Spurs go marching on!’
Paul Fowler
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@Steve, good reasoned answer. The long term maybe what some at AFC have in mind, it may not. We don’t know. Trouble is players want success today, not tomorrow, and that’s why we lose so many good players every season. Eventually the team will suffer as we’re seeing now. The fans are almost the same. They wonder why not one trophy has been won and yet the cost of watching the team is prohibitive for many. Value for money, not yet.
@Marcus, yes we rank low in expenditure. Have you wondered why? Because we had a very good team which didn’t need huge investment until about two years ago. Sunderland and Stoke and their ilk have to keep investing just to keep out of relegation battles.
@Walter, we’re not going to be relegated, whether Wenger stays or goes, unless there is a total management meltdown and that’s highly unlikely. It was an extreme example. And neither are we going to go out of business if we spend 100 million. Not that we will anyway, though we probably need to spend well over half that to win anything like the CL or league.
And my aunt died of cancer so I know exactly what that illness is like. I’ll say no more on that issue.
Don’t worry Rupert. We will spend.
But as Walter points out the risk of going all out for trophies now could have high cost to the future of Arsenal football club. It’s a fine line Arsenal, it’s board and Wenger have been treading these past few years. Nobody knows what the future holds for Arsenal football club but do we entrust it to the current board or do we go with the Russian.
If Arsenal do go down the Russian route is there anything really different he would do, is there any evidence that his way would be in the long term more sucsesfull. By reading his well timed letters to the media I can only see lots of political speak promising this and that but with no real answers to how he will achive it.
Silent Stan has come in for a lot of critisium for being…well silent but what is there really to say. Does he come out and say Arsenal are on a long term plan that is only half or two thirds of the way through. This will give no confidence for the short term fans will go well what’s the point in going until the plan has ended. Sponsors will go well what’s the point of investing in a club that will not compete etc. By speaking out he could cause more problems for the club.
By 2014 Arsenal could be in a position to be virtually debt free(enough money in the bank to cover the stadium debt) if this is the case then any and all money raised from sponsorships, match days etc could be pumped back into the team and not the debt.
Of course I could be totally wrong and Stan is in it for a huge profit from selling his shares soon and the Russian will take over go for the short term success which the fans would love.
What I hope is that when I’m 72 I am still going to see The Arsenal with my children like I do now with my dad.
Ray — if at any point in the last 94 years we had got relegated, then we would have.
@Ray. Really Ray, how seriously pathetic to roll that old chestnut out again. Yes we did probably bribe our way into Div 1. Now when was that…let me think? Better you should have said how we spent £25 million of public money on our attempted & failed move to the Olympic stadium. Oh wait a minute…… that was Spurs!
“Would you be happy if we would win a trophy next season and then go out of existence the year after? ”
Why these extremely hyperbolic statements that have zero reflection of reality, and framing as though it’s a clear choice between a trophy and bankruptcy akin to Leeds and Pompey. There can’t be a honest conversation about our state if the pre-defense is set up as such unrealistic hyperbole. No rational analysis can suggest we are going to go bankrupt the season after investing for a trophy (nor is any gooner calling for a City-esque spending spree in the first place). We are nothing remotely like Portsmouth (in terms of location, global following, wealth, revenue etc etc etc.) so we won’t “do a Leeds or Pompey” if we either a) invest a bit more in quality and b) utilize the resources we do have a bit more efficiently in order to do “a”.
Let’s have an honest discussion regardless of which side of the fence we as gooners sit on. The hyperbole about fans wanting us to spend like Chelsea/City, buy 50M rated players, a choice between a trophy of Portsmouth-esque finanical ruin..is intellectually dishonest.
“But as Walter points out the risk of going all out for trophies now could have high cost to the future of Arsenal football club. It’s a fine line Arsenal, it’s board and Wenger have been treading these past few years. Nobody knows what the future holds for Arsenal football club but do we entrust it to the current board or do we go with the Russian.”
No-one knows what the future holds for any club, business or anything at all for that matter.
All investment has risk and uncertainty attached. Mere risk or uncertainty shouldn’t preclude investment, that’s why successful clubs, businesses, governments etc employ intelligent people to mitigate risk as much as possible when making investments to maximize rewards. Does it always work out well? No.
But To be content to stand still, just because of the inhrerent uncertainty involved in investment does nothing but maintain the status quo, if you’re fine with that, then cool.
Regarding “the Russian” and no-one knows what the future holds. No-one knows if “The Russian” may spearhead a sustained period of success for Arsenal at the top of the game vs spearheading a sustained period of failure. No-one knows if he would seek success by going on a Chelsea-esque Oligarch spending/management style or whether he will attain success differently than our current model but with less upheaval and rash spending than say RA.
One thing though, “The Russian” is a highly successful business man, who has made very successful investments into a diversity of sectors. Maybe he knows how to invest wisely?
Regarding Spurs…who cares if they (fans and team) feel confident and are getting good press.
Postings such as this just show a deep insecurity and sense of being threatened, and a need though sarcasm to remind ourselves of our superiority because we feel threatened.
Forget Spurs and focus on ourselves and what we can do to improve our situation and return closer to the stop as opposed to closer to the next chasing pack as has been increasingly the recent trend.
@Rupert
Have I wondered why Arsenal have such low expenditures? No, never.
Arsene Wenger is first and foremost a realist. He understands the basic economic axiom lost to several generations, and completely forgotten by the present generation, that you cannot spend more than you earn. His stance may seem slightly idiosyncratic to some, but as and when AIG goes bust, and Man U ceases to be, then his common sense will look like prescience.
Wenger understands that saddling a club with a heap of debt and then disappearing is not a responsible way to behave.
Furthermore he is extremely canny at buying cheap and selling high.
Asking me why I think Arsenal are fiscally responsible when the manager has an economics masters is not the most challenging question.
I say Wenger is a realist, but he is also highly ambitious, and that is his undoing. Had he stuck to a couple of league cups and an FA cup in his tenure, he would be viewed as a succesful manager. But tilting at the European Cup, and creating the best domestic team probably ever seen on these shores 10 years ago, (on a modest budget to boot), has created a rod for his own back.
If he’d just looked at his budget and assembled a team with more modest ambitions, he would not now be marinating in this media pickle of being declared an utter failure when his team his only 5th in the league, and the last remaining English team in the world’s premier club competition.
btw, Wenger might get Ashley Williams according to the Mail. Exactly the sort of purchase he needs to make I think.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2289317/Arsene-Wenger-plans-ditch-Thomas-Vermaelen-Per-Mertesacker-Ashley-Williams-potential-replacement.html
Apart from Arshavin there isn’t many Russians I can say I can trust
The Williams story get printed the day after a twitter poll asking which new CB would you like to see at Arsenal voted for……
Go on have a guess who won the vote
A.Stewart, with regards to Spurs, Im going to be watching the game and hope for a hard fought score draw with the return leg also the same result Im hoping for extra time and penalties and a Spurs progress into the next round.
Make it as hard as possible to progress, with their premier league charge suffering as a result.
Im hoping for a Spurs loss in the final of the Europa legue.
Bit sad, but anything to help us out (please don’t state we should be doing better than them through our own qualities, I know).
Adam
Will be hoping for pretty much the same, wont be watching the game though:)
AL, I’m just mad for football, I will quite happily watch a Sunday league match over the local park.
And I have stated this before on this site. If I wasn’t born in to the Arsenal I would have been a Tottenham fan due to geography and my family history.
Just as I’m writing this poxy comment, up pops Bale.
Weird how people moan about Arsenal but I’m watching a team that won the champions league recently losing to a team in the Europa league. Oh how the mighty can fall?
Bale Booked again for diving, will miss the return leg.
Diving again, maybe he thinks he is playing in the prem where he gets away with it every week.
He will miss 2nd leg
Tell you what, there is a lot to be said for confidence.
Everywhere on the pitch Tottenham players look like they are going to beat Milan man for man. Any time there is a 1 v 1 situation the Spurs player/s will take the initiative and threaten to go past their opponent or go past, pulling Milan all over the place.
Does this make them better than us, NO, just more confident me thinks?
Anyway this aint a spurs love in. Just wanted to highlight what collective confidence can do for a side.
Does anyone remember why Wenger & Nasri get banned in Europe after the Barcelona loss a couple of years back? Surely their conduct wasn’t as bad as Ferguson’s & Rio’s? Let’s hope uefa come down on both like a ton of bricks…..oh, who am I kidding, Rio’s already got away scotfree. Guess its who you play for.
Why does this article go on about Spurs losing 5.o to Madrid?What do you think the aggregate score is going to be after the second leg against Bayern?Seriously,Spurs have just beaten Inter 3.0,when was the last time Arsenal beat a top European team over 2 legs? This article,like the club,reeks of complacency,and relying on past glories.No wonder Henry Ford said “History is Bunk”.Well,any so called Arsenal fan who sits back with their arms folded, happy that the club is doing nothing whilst Spurs overtake us,is no Gooner.An Arsenal supporter,yes,but no Gooner. Spurs HAVE got a better team and squad than us, and play effervescent,exciting football;soon there will not be a single Arsenal player that would get into a North London 11.Keep ignoring it,keep convincing yourself Arsenal are the Kings of North London..What do you care that kids in North London are becoming Spurs fans and turning their backs on Arsenal? The long term implications of this are massive,but who cares,as long as Arsenal has got a few more Vietnamise fans(who will switch to United or Barca in a year or two)
@Marcus, do you seriously think Manu will go out of business? That’s wish fulfillment gone mad. Most football clubs are in debt. That’s how it works in football world.
And let’s not harp on about being the last British team in the CL because barring a miracle we’ll be out of that next week.All we do in that competition is make up the numbers.
@AL, bit harsh on Russians. I married one and that wasn’t a great decision but I don’t hate them all. I take it your comment was probably tongue in cheek.
@Walter, are you in charge of Arsenal’s finances? But yes we’ll probably spend because we’ll have to.
@A.Stewart, as usual your posts reek of common sense.