By Walter Broeckx
So the media and many of our own fans repeat the mantra about x years and won nothing. If you then ask those people : is it just all about trophies? Do you only love Arsenal when they win? Then most will answer: No, no but I just want us to compete.
So what is actually competing? I think that competing is something like coming close to winning. Now of course we can all have different opinions but I think that competing in the league means finishing with only 6 points behind. And in the cup competitions I would say that reaching the final or semi final is rather competing. So let us have a look at the fact if we were competing or not?
| League | behind | FA Cup | League Cup | CL | |
|
2006 |
4 |
24 |
4th round | semi final | final |
|
2007 |
4 |
21 |
5th round | Final | last 16 |
|
2008 |
3 |
4 |
5th round | semi final | quarter final |
|
2009 |
4 |
18 |
semi final | quarter final | semi final |
|
2010 |
3 |
11 |
4th round | quarter final | quarter final |
|
2011 |
4 |
12 |
6th round | Final | last 16 |
|
2012 |
3 |
19 |
5th round | quarter final | last 16 |
So in 2006 with all the big names we still had we finished 4th and were 24 points behind. But we got to the semi final of the League cup and to the final of the CL. We were some 17 minutes away from winning the CL with almost an entire game playing with 10. So we competed for 2 trophies.
In 2007 we finished 4th in the league, still with some big names on our books and were 21 points behind. The only thing we were competing for was the League cup that season. We lost the final. A very young squad got beaten by a late goal from a complete Chelsea. Not a great season of course but we competed for one trophy.
In 2008 we came close to winning the title. And we would have won the title if the refs would have allowed it. We came 3rd with only 4 points behind. We also reached the semi final of the League cup that season. So a season we were competing for 2 trophies.
In 2009 we came 4th in the league with 18 points behind. We reached the semi final of the FA cup. And we also reached the semi final of the champions league in that season. So again one could say that we were competing for 2 trophies.
2010 was a bad year. Finishing 3rd is not really bad but 11 points behind the champions was a too big gap to say we were competing. And we couldn’t reach a semi final or final in that season. So we didn’t compete for a trophy in that year.
In 2011 we finished 4th with a 12 point gap in the league between ourselves and the champions. The FA cup and the CL was no real success although we beaten Barcelona at home but only to see Busacca sending Van Persie off when we were qualified at that moment in time. But we did reach the final of the League cup. We lost it in the last seconds. But we competed for one trophy and we won against the best team in the world and only lost because of a Catalan backheal and a rather biased ref.
Last season was a season where we didn’t compete. We lost our two best players. We made it from 17th in the league up to 3rd but the gap of 19 points was a big one. I just want to mention that based on the second half of the season Arsenal was keeping up the tempo with the two Manchester teams. But no real joy in the cups of champions league last season.
So if we take all this and put this in a table we can see this as our “competing table”
| Competed on possible 4 | |
|
2006 |
2 |
|
2007 |
1 |
|
2008 |
2 |
|
2009 |
2 |
|
2010 |
0 |
|
2011 |
1 |
|
2012 |
0 |
So in those 7 years we only had 2 years where you really could say that we didn’t compete at all. That was in the season 2009-2010 and the strange thing is that this was a season when we still had Cesc, Nasri, RVP, Clichy, Song …
And last season when we lost Cesc and Nasri two of our star players we didn’t really compete. And it is possible to say that this season again we lost two of our star players and the result is that we don’t compete unless we deliver a real surprise in the coming days.
So after seeing this it is clear we didn’t win a trophy in those years. I’m not even claiming that 4th place is a trophy to make up the numbers. If I would take that point of view things would look completely different and better. But I will not.
But you cannot say that we didn’t compete in those years. 3 finals, 4 semi finals and one league title stolen under our nose is what we did in those years without a trophy. I do think this is competing.
I could use the words once said: do you love Arsenal for the trophies? Or do you just love Arsenal? Is a trophy the only yardstick you want to use. Fine. Feel miserable then. But for those who claim that they just want us to compete I can only say that the in the last 7 years we did compete and on many fronts and on many occasions.
Of course the finishing touch was missing in those years. But if we look at the bigger picture and at what we had to deal with when other teams could spend money as if it was nothing. And if we look at how hamstrung we were after building the Emirates I think it is remarkable that we even could compete in those years.
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The sites from the same team…
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@Walter
I thought you were a ref So tell me if a asst ref puts his flag up because a player is in their opinion, in an offside position are you saying the ref has to give an blow for offside?
An offside decision is made by the ref. I will acccept that in 99.999999% of cases if the flag goes up the ref wont over rule it but they can and do.
As for the Birmingham game the point I was trying to make , was that you infered that the game went against Arsenal due to MD being in charge, but the irony was that Aresnal benefeited from an incorrect desision.
I don’t need RVP or Piers Morgan to tell what it’s happening when I can see crystal clear. 4th spot trophy that Wenger keeps spouting is ambition. Yeah, right !
Once again talking about what Wenger achieved many years ago and ignoring the huge elephant in the room over the past 8 years.
Wenger won’t win the UCL trophy that’s for sure. He doesn’t have the motivation skills and tactical nous to accomplish that. He couldn’t do it with better squads so why do you think he will deliver when the quality of The Arsenal squad has been deteriorated over the past few years (and the wage bill increasing)?
Wenger doesn’t even bother to study the opposition for goodness sake! So no game plan. What kind of management is that?
When you have a manager who lost all 3 UEFA finals you know there’s something wrong.
Wenger has a semi-final and a final in the UCL competition but Ancelotti managing AC Milan has a much better record (and two trophies) with less years. And once again Ancelotti didn’t have loads of money to spend.
In fact, Wenger’s record in the UCL is not impressive at all. And once again it’s worth mentioning that only 4 managers has more than a hundred games in this competition and only Wenger has ZERO trophy. Embarrassing for a so called ‘TOP’ manager!
Sperez, Porto & Benfica have always been the strongest sides in Portugal, they rely heavily on outside investment by ways of selling a players future transfer rights, also known as third party player ownership. You will not see these figures in a clubs books they are monies outside of football and even have their own rules now written in to the FFPR, if you cannot understand this concept, all you have to do is ask and I will forward you the regulations so you can read up on the differences between the rules which premier league clubs adhere to and the rest of Europe barring Poland and France which also rules this form of player registration income.
When a team finalises its books it is not allowed to declare profits from players future transfer rights until that player has left the club, and then only the percentage the club owns, so when Porto sells a player for say £30 million then the possibility of them only earning 20% £6 million is a very realistic situation.
When Porto or Benfica bring in a player from say Brazil they might not own the player but might only own his registration for the purpose of FIFA player status and transfer regulations, in effect they are loaning the player from an agent or agency which is using the club as a promotional tool and the club is keeping its running costs down. This summarises the relationship between many clubs in Portugal and agents from the area, Brazil and Africa.
Mourinho’s declared budget is not a reflection of the truth. Neither are any financial reporting’s coming out of Portugal as most monies is from private investors, a very similar principal to how Brazilian football is run.
Sperez, I don’t think so you know for a fact what AW does & doesn’t. To say that wenger doesn’t study opposition, has no tactical nous, etc. is incredulous. From your POV a manager is to be judged by how many cups he wins but the question here is ‘Is arsenal competing’. During those failed UEFA finals we were competing with the best. We went 10 matches without conceding a goal in 2006 CL – against vastly superior oppositions. Matteo won the CL but if real madrid, barca and bayern were to choose between matteo & AW who would they choose?
“Once again talking about what Wenger achieved many years ago and ignoring the huge elephant in the room over the past 8 years”
After you put the above sentence, you bagan to talk about other managers past success. Ancelloti isn’t doing great given the resources PSG has, nor is chelsea, nor mancity in relation to resources & player qualities.
I Am pretty certain AW knows what is wrong with Arsenal but since I am not AW I cannot surmise precisely what AW is currently thinking.
Mike T,
a ref can overrule his assistant.
But if he would do so he might risk a punch on his nose at half time
You must have been part of a ref-team to understand it. Any ref will tell his assistants that they are responsible for the offside calls. The only time he will overrule them is when an assistant raises his flag but when the ref from his position on the field could see that a defender made the pass to that attacker.
He can overrule them when there is a passive offside position.
But in this particular case the assistant raised his flag to signal an offside of the active player.
Yes it was a wrong decision. But in such a case the ref is relying on the decision of the assistant. If a ref would overrule such a decision and overruling that decision would be wrong he will face:
1) an enormous punishment from the PGMOL.
2) like said a punch on his nose from the assistant (and probably the other assistant will join him and the ref can go home with two black eyes)
3) future assistants will not be happy to do games with him. They will not like him because he doesn’t trust them. Or has an agenda.
Back to this specific case: the assistant was wrong. But the ref had as explained had almost no option to overrule that decision.
The only way this decision could be overruled with 100% certainty, would be by using video evidence.
Oh that is what I have been calling for for many many many many, too many years now.
Another thought:
And as I said before: the incorrect decision was from the assistant.
And believe me no ref can make correct offside decisions when he is alone on the field. It is humanly impossible to make correct offside decisions without assistants. They don’t put them(assistants) out there to fill up the numbers.
From statistical evidence last season some 90% of the offside decisions made by the assistants were correct. My first guess is that if we would remove the assistants the ref would make less than 50% correct offside decisions.
I think if a ref on his own would make 30-40% correct offside decisions he would have a great game.
Please, don’t try to belittle Mourinho’s work at FC Porto. If you look at the Porto squad that won the UCL in 2004, you’ll see most of the club’s players were Portuguese and not foreign super stars assembled with exorbitant spending.
Wenger certainly couldn’t win with that Porto side.
What we’ve been seeing on the pitch suggests Wenger doesn’t care about the opposition.
Fabregas stated during World Cup that the team was not briefed on the opposition. ‘At Arsenal we don’t really look at anything from the other team, we look for ourselves and that’s it.’
No game plan at all. That’s why Arsenal is not performing well.
Ancelotti, Ancelotti. He is so superior to Wenger…
I believed PSG has the best defensive record in League 1 and one of the best in the UCL. Put Wenger in charge there and you’ll see the defence making the same silly mistakes over and over again. Unless PSG hire an expert to coach their defence to keep Wenger away.
Ancelotti won 2 trophies at Chelsea in 2009/2010. So, no eight years without a trophy yet.
Just to remind you, this run to the 2006 UCL final coincided with Keown coaching Arsenal’s defence.
How long do you think Wenger would keep his job at Real Madrid, Barça or Bayern?
Wenger was invincible when on a level playing field.
Now who’s burying their head in the sand.
Porto & Mourinho, Benni McCarthy (south african), Hugo Benjamín Ibarra (Argentinian), Silvio Maric (croatian), André Macanga (Angolan), Iván Kaviedes (Ecuadorian), Miklós Fehér (Hungarian), Rafael (Brazil, Fredrik Söderström (Sweden), Juan Esnáider (Argentinian), Víctor Quintana (Paraguay), Edgaras Jankauskas, (Lithuanian), Ákos Buzsáky (Hungarian), Derlei & Ferreira & Zé Carlos & Carlos Alberto & Maciel & Fabiano Rossato & Bruno Moraes & David Lopes & Evaldo (All Brazilian).
The Portuguese players you speak of are or were clients of Gestifute. who at a later date were moved on for exorbitant fees.
Gestifute players for Porto 2004
Maniche a free transfer from Benfica to Porto later sold for £14million.
Paulo Ferreira sold for £18 million
Ricardo Carvalho sold for £26 million
Deco sold for £18million
José Bosingwa sold for £18million
Non Gestifute players
Jorge Costa free transfer
Vítor Baía sold £5 million
Nuno Valente sold £1.7
Costinha sold £3.5
You see a pattern emerging? Now I take nothing away from Porto’s win, they dived their way rather spectacularly to the final and winners podium, however I will attack their business model as it gives them a direct advantage over other clubs that are not allowed this form of financial income.
It does not offer long term stability and is in a way contradictory to the ethics of the game. As outlined in the player status regulations.
Again if you do not understand this I will pass on as much information as possible.
FIFA’s research partners Birkbeck university of London have released studies in to Benfica and Porto’s model of ownership and FIFA & UEFA are looking into banning this model, as yet it’s still up in the air.
The point im trying to make you understand is this, If a player has cost Porto £1 million and is then sold 2/3 years later for £18 million, and this money does not show on their finance reports then someone else owned the players transfer rights and the only reason Porto could afford the player in the first place was that there had to be an agreement in place for the players future sale.
You only have to look at the latest Gestifute transfers from Porto.
Pepe £27 million, Hulk £47 million, Falcao £41 million and the list could go on. Porto should be one of the richest clubs about, but where is the money? And why aren’t Porto posting huge profits? The reason being is that they don’t own the players outright.
But you bury your head in the sand, Im done trying to make you see sense. Any manager will be successful at Porto.
sperez,
and who was coaching the defence of the invincibles?
sperez,
Answer Adam’s analysis of Porto 2004, or plug it.
You’ve no credibility if you cannot or will not.
Beautiful job, Adam.
Portugal, Portugal… Portuguese blood runs through my veins.
Não nego a existência de práticas financeiras questionáveis no mundo do futebol. Também ocorre em Portugal, eu sei. Contudo, se queres mesmo falar a respeito disso, não há nada mais repulsivo do que o modelo econômico que sustenta os dois gigantes espanhóis, Real Madrid e Barcelona.
Estas mais uma vez a tentar diminuir o trabalho de Mourinho ao afirmar que qualquer um teria sucesso no comando do Porto. Será que esse ‘sucesso tão fácil de conseguir’ vai além das fronteiras de Portugal?
Porque duvido da capacidade de Wenger em conquistar a taça da UCL com o mesmo time que Mourinho comandava em 2004 com ou sem dinheiro.
Seus números são pós-FC Porto campeão Europeu de 2004? Se sim, por favor, explique a Bob que parte desses lucros obtidos foi após a conquista da cobiçada taça da UCL. Nada que obscureça o maravilhoso trabalho de Mourinho.
E o Benfica? Será que qualquer um teria sucesso por lá também? Falas do Porto, mas o Benfica foi um dos clubes que mais se beneficiaram com a citada prática. Por que o Benfica ainda não ganhou a UCL na última década se é tão fácil com toda essa vantagem pecuniária?
I don’t deny the existence of questionable financial practices in the football world. It happens in Portugal, I know. However, if you want to talk about this, there’s nothing more repulsive than the financial model that sustains the Spanish giants, Real Madrid and Barcelona.
You’re once again trying to belittle Mourinho’s work when you say that anyone would be successful at FC Porto. Will this success ‘easily achievable’ go beyond the Portugal’s border ?
I doubt Wenger’s capability to win the UCL trophy with the same team Mourinho managed in 2004 with or without money.
Your numbers are post-FC Porto, European champion of 2004? If this is the case, please, explain to Bob that part of these profits was gained after the conquest of the so desired UCL trophy. There’s nothing to obscure Mourinho’s wonderful work.
And Benfica? Would anyone be successful there too?
You talk about Porto, but Benfica was one of the clubs that benefited more from the aforementioned practice.
So, why Benfica didn’t still win the UCL in the last decade if it’s so easy with all this financial advantage?
—————————————————
Walter, I answered this same question here once. I believe Wenger was not that good about defence (though I recognise he had several qualities regarding other things in football)and the fact the he inherited Graham’s defence certainly helped him in the beginning.
Toure benefited from having someone as good at the defensive job as his partner. Sol Campbell was a beast in defence. Just imagine a Toure-Vermaelen partnership in the invincible years. No good at all. Toure needed someone good, solid and experienced to put him in the right direction.
Let’s talk about the defence over the last years. So, if Wenger was the only reason for the success of the invincible’s defence, why hasn’t he been able to ‘coach’, replicate the defence from those glorious days? Why has the defence been so terrible ?
Not a single super star in FC Porto squad in 2004.
As I said I’m done with you, Its just not going in is it?
And yes I am belittling Mourinho’s work, and yes you are right Arsene Wenger would not have won the champions league with that squad or with that model.
Remove the model and Porto would not be able to attract the talent to the club nor keep it.
However Mourinho did a fantastic job with the Internationals at his disposal.
Not a single super star in FC Porto squad in 2004.
DECO? Mcarthy?
Oh and you have my sympathies regarding the Portuguese blood.
Long live Arthur Wellesley. You do realise that Portugal are Britain’s longest serving allies.
No superstars? But don’t you want us to go shopping for just that?
Your boring now.
I cannot account for your ignorance Sperez. So you are now counted amongst the stupid who will not listen. I have tried to make you understand that Porto’s squad was assembled with the help of financial doping and Jorge Mendez influence, similar to Real Madrid before Mourinho’s arrival.
“But you no listen”
Deco was not a super star then. A very good player, but superstar? C’mon… Mourinho convinced Deco to stay a little longer.
Just look at Mcarthy before he joined Porto. A good player yes but he flourished under Mourinho.
Superstars don’t join Porto, Benfica or Sporting. These clubs are used as stepping stones (just like Arsenal now).If a player becomes too good to play in Portugal, he’ll be sold. Superstars want to go to Madrid, Barcelona, ManU, City and Chelsea, Bayern…
Falcão wasn’t a superstar when he joined Porto. He still plays for Atlético, still…but..
Agüero was not a superstar when he joined Atlético. In fact, when they sold him to City, they replaced him with a player of the same caliber spending almost the same. Atlético has more ambition than Arsenal.
Wenger should learn to do this. When he sells a player he tries to replace him with inferior shite. That’s why the squad keeps deteriorating. This is not a self-sustaining model at all. In a self-sustaining model, you replace a player with one of the same quality.
I guess Wenger is afraid of the pressure to win trophies. So it’s better to say nonsense like ‘this is the best squad I ever had’(a couple of years ago).
Anyway, back to the Portuguese teams… FC Porto couldn’t afford to buy superstars in 2004 and this hasn’t changed since then.
So, what I am trying to say is Porto was not the richest club in Europe and they couldn’t buy all the players they wanted but I know the club had significantly resources to assemble a good team, A GOOD TEAM, NOT A TEAM FULL OF SUPERSTARS. Then, Mourinho worked his magic.
Money is necessary to achieve things in football but it’s not the only factor behind success. If money was everything, there was no need for competition. We wouldn’t see Birmingham and Bradford causing trouble for Arsenal or Bayern losing the Bundesliga title to Dortmund.
So, a manager needs to be competent using the resources available to him wisely. Wenger is mismanaging Arsenal’s resource with his horrible socialist wage structure (well, guess what? Wenger isn’t being paid according to his socialist wage principles) and with very poor signings.
About Portugal and England, yes, I know.
The Brazilian gold really helped to finance the English Industrial Revolution…
Yes, I know, I know… financial doping. But blame UEFA. Porto and other clubs just took advantage of the situation. Real Madrid and Barcelona are far worse and richer…
Do you really trust UEFA’s FFP? I can’t see them causing trouble for the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, City, Chelsea…
But, remember it doesn’t matter the resource a club has if it’s going down the toilet.
sperez,
just wondering if all that glitters is gold? In other words, is it fair to ask whether the Brazilian gold you mention that financed the english industrial revolution actually mined by the thousands of slaves that the portuguese had brought into brazil from africa?
Is this discussion about competing / winning or going towards politics? In that case U can bring in all the European countries that exploited other countries for their benifet.
Good points from both sides. I don’t think you should belittle Mourinho’s achievements Adam. After all he knows how to win the CL. This is what I find so revolting about Rafa’s treatment at Chelsea. Rafa won the CL with a fairly ordinary Pool side. I think he’s earned a little respect from everyone.
I don’t think anyone actually thinks Wenger will ever win the CL. Certainly not at Arsenal. He’s had 15 or so attempts and come close once. That’s not a great manager.
Despite his obvious decline Wenger still deserves respect too. He gave us seven years of great football and several trophies along the way. On an international level he’s come up short but he’s done a sterling job on a national level at least up until four or five seasons ago.
Bob, yes. The slaves from Africa certainly mined the gold from Brazil. You know, Brazil was the last Latin America country to abolish slavery. It didn’t take any longer because the British government put pressure on Brazil to end this practice.
Rupert, Wenger deserves the utmost respect for the first half of his tenure. But these past few years…well, it has been depressing.
“Porto & Mourinho, Benni McCarthy (south african), Hugo Benjamín Ibarra (Argentinian), Silvio Maric (croatian), André Macanga (Angolan), Iván Kaviedes (Ecuadorian), Miklós Fehér (Hungarian), Rafael (Brazil, Fredrik Söderström (Sweden), Juan Esnáider (Argentinian), Víctor Quintana (Paraguay), Edgaras Jankauskas, (Lithuanian), Ákos Buzsáky (Hungarian), Derlei & Ferreira & Zé Carlos & Carlos Alberto & Maciel & Fabiano Rossato & Bruno Moraes & David Lopes & Evaldo (All Brazilian). ”
And not one of these players were considered top stars in world football at the time (and even since), so not sure what they point of saying Mourinho had foreign players at his disposal was, other than he had foreign players at his disposal.
Now I take nothing away from Porto’s win, they dived their way rather spectacularly to the final and winners podium, however I will attack their business model as it gives them a direct advantage over other clubs that are not allowed this form of financial income.
“Gestifute players for Porto 2004
Maniche a free transfer from Benfica to Porto later sold for £14million.
Paulo Ferreira sold for £18 million
Ricardo Carvalho sold for £26 million
Deco sold for £18million
José Bosingwa sold for £18million
Non Gestifute players
Jorge Costa free transfer
Vítor Baía sold £5 million
Nuno Valente sold £1.7
Costinha sold £3.5″
So what? None of these players were household names in world football UNTIL their successes at Porto under Mourinho. We’ve had this discussion before (sorry to but in), no-one was denying they were quality talents (who became quality players under Mourinho’s tutelage). Not to mention these local players were the nucleus of their success far more in comparison to the non-superstar foreigners you listed.
“Now I take nothing away from Porto’s win, they dived their way rather spectacularly to the final and winners podium, however I will attack their business model as it gives them a direct advantage over other clubs that are not allowed this form of financial income.”
Well yes you do go at very long lengths to take something away from Porto’s (well this is really all about discrediting Mourinho especially in comparison to Wenger, let’s be real) win, including now the jibes about diving.
Great you seem to know a lot about their business model and if your gripes are about “a direct advantage over other club that are not allowed this form of financial income” IN PORTUGAL then fine (similarly you should discredit anything Barcelona and Madrid has won in Spain, no?)..but just like when I was having this discussion with you, it’s about comparing a comparative lack of resources (personnel and money) to the elite teams in Europe. And no matter what shady ownership structures that exist in Portugal and no matter how great players like Carvalho and Deco etc (the players you state that Porto chiefly benefited from having due to that ownership model) turned out to be, their resources in terms of funds, and player status (at the time of comparison) paled in comparison to the heavy hitters of the sport at the time, the likes of the Milan, Madrid, Barcelona, United, Munich, Juventus, even Liverpool etc..and even in comparison to…………Arsenal who had far more highly rated players than the Porto boys at the time, and was and is still a more wealthy club.
So no matter how you spin in, Mourinho won IN EUROPE with Porto with far less financial and player resources than the big boys, and won the Uefa Champions League without the level of big spending (Oligarch-esque) that he is accused of not being able to win without. Moreover, this doesn’t begin to address what he achieved with a net transfer profit at Inter.
At Porto he won without spending big money on big superstars as he is often accused as not being able to win without. Again, we are comparing the resources available to him to those of the big boys in Europe (not the league in Portugal), and regardless of how good the Porto boys turned out and were sold for eventually, they were NOT commonly considered amongst the top elite players at the time, that clubs like United, Milan, Madrid and even ARSENAL (you know, the invincibles) had.
I do think you miss the point A.Stewart and if I have to I will take the time to walk you through your misunderstandings, of how Portuguese football is set up to succeed for the chosen, or at least the chosen one.
You obviously have not researched the background of football as I have or have access to the information that I do.
Again if I have to walk you through it, if you cannot work it out for yourself and as I have said to Sperez, all you have to do is ask.
Adam,
Could you write an article about that? What other leagues do you have knowledge of also?
Stuart, I have been reading up on Brazilian football or rather lack of it, and to think they have a world cup coming up.
I have written many articles about Portuguese football, they are on here somewhere?
The more you read up on the background of football the more you realise some things are instigated more than we would like to acknowledge.
Now I love football, but it is a mess and needs cleaning up.
And I find it very difficult to give credit to individuals when it is clear they had a huge helping hand.
This thread has lost the plot…The question was “is it about winning or competing?” Ask any professional sportsperson and it is about winning the ultimate goal…you have to compete to attain that. Arsenal are competing but within their limitations. We all know this. Only dreamers believe under the current regime we will win anything. I love the club but also a realist….Arsenal IS a business first and foremost. Venture capitalists like Stan Kroenke have invested for the long term and left it to the professionals to run the club. I believe he is about 200-300 million in front at his time and that is without winning diddly squat. Fine for him….the fans want more and not unreasonably considering the investment that has been made in the stadium, the brand and having one of the best managers in the world. Kroenke on board has secured the future of certain directors who if all remember did not want his sort on the board a few years ago. If Arsenal want to compete at the top level things must change…the promise to the future about FFP..the Arsenal financial model, Wenger building a team with youth…its all promises. Whether we like it or not financial football has moved on and changed. Hang onto the dream and promises but until we do what Man U, Man City, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Chelsea do how can we compete
There’s nothing special about mourinho, its only the English press that adores him. Everywhere else he’s made fun of, that’s why he left Inter. Personally I wouldn’t to see him associated with a club I support because he’s a slimy & dishonest character. He has used money to buy success. As Lord Sugar once said, get him down to Leyton Orient and we will see how special he really is. He’s a chancer.
Did I mention UEFA also labelled him an enemy of football. Now can we talk about proper football managers please, not some translators-cum-con-artists-turned-football-managers.
Today we will see if we are competitive or are we just on the CL to make money. We had 10 of prepration (tactical=attack/defence) so I really really hope that we give it our best. If we are up 1 or 2 goals in the 1st half without conceding we have a chance. Its not about competing but, its competing to WIN!
Hilarious. The jealousy of Mourinho strays into the realms of the absurd. Wenger isn’t as good a manager as Mourinho. Success is measured by achievement and even when Wenger had a side capable of winning the CL, the teams between 98-06, he couldn’t. All managers of big teams have access to healthy sums of money, even Wenger, though his use of funds has been poor in recent years.
Whatever happens tonight, probably a 4-0 thrashing, though I’d love it if we progressed, this team is vastly inferior to the best teams in the CL.
Not qualifying for the CL maybe a blessing as we can actually concentrate on competitions we could win like the FA Cup and Capital One. That’s our level now so get used to it.
@Al
Your comments about Mourinio are, well beyond belief
Heres a manager that has won 7 league titles, 2 CL and 1 UEFA cup . He hsa won a major competion in every calender league since 2002 to dismiss as being a joke him comes somewhere that isnt based on anything other than bias.
I really dislike how SAF conducts himself but if I were to suggest he isnt perhaps the greatest mananger in English football history would be me in denial so for anyone to suggest Mourino isnt up there as one of the greatest coaches currently in world football seems starnge.
@Mike T. It’s the land of denial where a large proportion of Arsenal fans now reside. Mourinho is a manager who would almost certainly have won us a trophy or two in the last eight years, financial restrictions or not. Next we’ll be hearing that Messi isn’t better than Diaby, Messi only plays well because he’s surrounded by virtually the Spanish national team and if Diaby wasn’t injured every week he’d be the best in the world.
do think you miss the point A.Stewart and if I have to I will take the time to walk you through your misunderstandings, of how Portuguese football is set up to succeed for the chosen, or at least the chosen one.
You obviously have not researched the background of football as I have or have access to the information that I do.
Again if I have to walk you through it, if you cannot work it out for yourself and as I have said to Sperez, all you have to do is ask.
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You don’t need to walk me through anything Adam, I hear you loud and clear and find your points valid about how Portuguese football is set up especially with regards to the bigger clubs and thus makes it somewhat non-competitive, similar with la liga and Barca and Madrid’s TV revenue / banking arrangements monopolies rendering La Liga largely uncompetitive.
However, NONE OF THAT, erases the point that still Porto’s monetary and player resources paled in comparison to the European heavy hitters when Mourinho won the CL with them..That is the point you seem to constantly miss. It’s a very simple point that seems to escape you consistently. It’s hardly a eureka moment.
“As Lord Sugar once said, get him down to Leyton Orient and we will see how special he really is.”
The hallmark of a great manager has now been reduced to whether they can achieve success with a lower division team? That’s almost as juvenilely silly as the “But can Messi do it on a cold/wet Wednesday night at Stoke?” stuff.
“He has used money to buy success”
Explain how we “bough success” with Inter for the treble.
“Personally I wouldn’t to see him associated with a club I support because he’s a slimy & dishonest character. ” Personally I wouldn’t make judgments on his character as I don’t know the man personally. He could be a great family man, philanthropist, good tipper, or he could be the epitome of evil. What I do know is that he is a good football manager. Personally I don’t think he is the right fit for Arsenal and I wouldn’t want him to manage AFC either, but that doesn’t prevent me from seeing he is a damn good manager, who has achieved a lot at a young age in various environments, and whose players generally love playing for him and often and regularly speak about that and his motivational prowess.
“Did I mention UEFA also labeled him an enemy of football.”
Well no you didn’t, but you kind of did actually with your rhetorical question. Not that I know whether that is true or not, but erm, so what if they did? Personally I give little credence to what governing bodies of the sport have to say, since they’ve long proven their corruption, inconsistency and incompetence, if you wish to justify their musings, feel free.