Comments on: What the rule book says about the Shawcross tackle

By: Tee Song

Tee Song — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 15:53:21 +0000

I sense that many Arsenal fans are frustrated at the outpouring of sympathy for a serial leg breaker and the willful ignorance of the FACT that Arsenal players have suffered an extraordinarily disproportionate number broken legs as a result of dangerous challenges. Clearly the British press and the FA want to justify our players’ injuries as the unlucky and unforeseen byproduct of good old fashioned grit and steel. It is up to Wenger, the club, and the players themselves to protect themselves. My question is how do they best do this? Become leg breakers ourselves? Media campaign? Imploring the FA? I don’t know but it seems action is warranted.

By: goonergerry

goonergerry — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:00:33 +0000

I think this an excellent article. It is important to be reminded that our football exists in a wider context-that the rules of the game are not made up by the media in England and that English football is not a law unto itself. The tackle on Ramsey has only been condemned by a minority of jounalists who see it as an opportunity to address one of the EPLs biggest blind spots. The remainder and the vast majority of former players identify with Shawcross and see him as the wronged party. They are also appallingly indifferent to the plight of Ramsey. This reaction is born out of defensiveness, ignorance and a deeply imbued win at any cost mentality. Pro players in England do not know where the boundary is between commitment and dangerous play in England that is clear. They are to a man apologist for alehouse football-England would better off with fewer of them.

By: Ian T

Ian T — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 11:52:34 +0000

Walter you make many good points.
The Stoke game was not dirty in general but it simmered, I remember the Sky commentator, a while before the incident had happened, commending the Ref for “allowing IT to go here and its a better game for it”, whilst himself realising that action would normally be taken. Mr Walton, for Me, appeared to show very little authority during the match and so as Stoke tired somewhat, after their midweek exertions in the FA cup, Arsenal’s possession became more and more dominant in the game, Shawcross (and I am in no way condoning him), became frustrated by this and produced a reckless challenge, a challenge with complete disregard for its consequences both to his opponent and from the referee, who had been “allowing it to go”.
The sad thing is, what we are suggesting here is that the incident could and should have been avoided and the referee had a major part to play in that.
Before denouncing Mr Walton here I would like to bring to your attention the previous two encounters between the teams at the Britannia stadium, which have also seen Mr Shawcross escape similar reckless challenges (Adeybayor last season and Cesc in the FA cup) without the required punishment being administered by different officials, both times no yellow card.
To sum up, it seems to Me that this was an accident waiting to happen and if we allow this horrendous incident to go without remonstration, then we are as guilty as Mr Walton.

By: tim

tim — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:47:10 +0000

Walter — That’s exactly right.

At AW’s next press conference, the media will inevitably ask him about Shawcross again. Therefore, I’d like to see AW bring out a copy of the FIFA rule book to cite the rules above that you have so clearly mentioned. Now that would be brilliant.

By: walter

walter — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 07:21:04 +0000

Tim,
I read the whole rule book every summer and even I must admit that every year I find something that I think : oops, I almost forgot that.
You have to continue this I feel because otherwise you will lose it after a few years.

Now I really would like to know from any pundit:
a) Has he ever read the rules and guidelines?
b) When was the last time he read them?
c) Did he ever have done a test on the rules and guidelines like refs have to do ?

I think this would give some interesting answers …mostly around 0 to 1 …

And then they come on the TV and pretend to know all and everything… sigh

By: tim

tim — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 03:29:49 +0000

Walter — After this article and last week’s concerning the refereeing fiasco in Porto, it’s clear referees need to review the rule book more often.

I think it all boils down to what Wenger said about Martin Hansson being either “incompetent or dishonest, I prefer to think incompetent.”

There’s no excuse for incompetence at this level. So that only means one option…

By: Hartwick89

Hartwick89 — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:30:56 +0000

Tony & Walter,

These past few days have been quite excellent! This is exactly the focus I needed after such a Horrid week-end. FOCUS!

By: walter

walter — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:13:55 +0000

And Rhys I think it would be a bit difficult for me to have a debate with someone like Andy Townsend. As English is not my mother language, I can talk it reasanably but than I am relaxed but when you have to do this in a more stressful surrouding I don’t know if I could do myself justice.

By: walter

walter — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:59:57 +0000

should be “It” brings colour in our lives.

By: walter

walter — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:15:51 +0000

LRV, if you hear the amount of crap spouted by ex-pro’s like on MOTD at times I really wonder at times if I am a ref in the same game. Let alone the idiocy you hear from the touchlines. Really… unbelievable at times. I can tell you we have a lot of meals laughing with some of those idiots who think they know something about the rules… I brings colour in our lives.

By: walter

walter — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:09:50 +0000

Have cut it a bit in to pieces Rhys to make it easier to read for others.
I must say I have not official statistics on how many incidents happen in other leagues. So I have to tell you what I remember from the last years. So I only take the premier leagues
In Belgium : 3 incidents happened in the last couple of seasons: all the victims – players from different teams.
In France : also 2 incidents: with players form different teams
In Spain : 1 incident
In Italy: no incidents that I know
In Holland : no incidents that I know
In Germany: no incidents that I know
In England: 3 incidents that I know : all players from the same team as victim.

Now it could be that I have missed on some case but as we are a family with 3 refs at home we are very attentiv to such incidents as we discuss about them during meals.

When you look at these numbers then even a blind man can see that there is something wrong about the fact that all the casualty’s in England are from the same team.

In fact it would be very intresting to do research on this as it can bring evidence that it as a regular used tactic to destroy Arsenal on the field.

By: LRV

LRV — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 22:08:30 +0000

Kudos Walter. I wish I knew how to make these mediocre iZombies learn about FIFA Rules and 21st century football .

By: walter

walter — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 21:58:03 +0000

Rhys, some intresting points you make.

On the proposal of putting ex-pro’s in a pannel that should look after tackles is a bit odd. They seem to think that let us say (ex)-referees are not good enough to see the difference. I would say that if those ex-profs think they can teel the difference they should have become a ref after their career. But helas, you don’t see many ex-profs taking on that task… why ? Well I don’t know. Maybe they realize better than anyone else the difficulty ?
I must say that I have known one ex-pro that has stopped his career and became a ref and a rather good one. It was Dick Jol a now former Dutch Fifa ref. As had played with my local team I knew his football style and I have followed his career and he was very good as a ref I must say.

By: SB

SB — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 18:08:35 +0000

NICE GUY SHAWCROSS BEING NICE
Broke Jeffers leg (former Arsenal player, now that is a coincidence). Shawcross – Jeffers article

http://content.thisis.co.uk/sentinel07/homepage/ad_panel/sentinel_backpage.pdf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083214/Arsenal-striker-Adebayor-ruled-weeks-Stoke-clash.html – come on now, shawcross has injured 2 of our players. now i guess thats luck and a coincidence.

http://v4admin.sportnetwork.net/upload/626/EMP-7340127.jpg – giving us a penalty and tripping. NOT A BAD FOUL but at least he gave us a penalty…some consolation..but still

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1083029/Cowards-Angry-Wenger-accuses-hard-men-Stoke-setting-hurt-Arsenal-players.html – stoke injured 3 of our players in one match then broke a leg in the other. Bad luck and more coincidences for Arsenal.

VIDEOS – don’t worry they are not the Aaron Ramsey tackle and are not horrific at all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOu_b8ZvgrU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImCLHKXTOs&feature=related

Do something. This tactic of roughing up Arsenal is obviously very dangerous. Above are examples from just one team…Time to do something about this.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00637/stoke_8_-_Ryan_Shaw_637143a.jpg – even injuring his own players by poking them in the eye.

Another player injured by Stoke – http://www.onestokefan.co.uk/2009/12/06/arsenal-2-0-stoke-city-stoke-players-attempts-to-injure-arsenals-fail/

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/galleries/182/182625/display_image_GYI0058556602.jpg – dont know what he did. i could look it up but ive been researchin this already too long and have other stuff to do lol. someone can look it up if they want, sure it would be interesting…
p.p.s

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/09PC1Ox14kaRz/429x.jpg NICE ONE!

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:56:16 +0000

Forget intent, as Bobby McMahon says.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions, never mind the bad ones.

It was a foul and heinous challenge.
The BBC in their typically self-serving way ‘proved’ to the nation that it wasn’t malicious, because he didn’t go in with the studs…..but then again 2 years ago they proved that Taylor wasn’t malicious, because he went in with the studs, but he was ‘clumsy.’

Pay anyone a million a year, plus the chance to advertise on National TV, and they will endorse whatever product you ask them to, whether its Walkers’ Crisps, Morrisons’ Food, or The EPL.

Malice is irrelevant, a complete red herring, a sideshow.

It was an awful challenge, by a man who had lost possession of the ball, where his foot made contact a foot above the ground, and therefore he was never intending to play the ball.

Whether it was premeditated or heat of the moment, who cares?
Are we interested in Shawcross’s evil mind?

I am not, any more than I care to know whether the Yorkshire Ripper was mad or bad…..irrelevant to me.

By: Flint McCullough

Flint McCullough — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:29:12 +0000

sorry should be “not in the context”

By: Flint McCullough

Flint McCullough — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:27:23 +0000

The incident was actually in the context of the match as it had been played. The game was a contrast of styles but had mainly been played in a fair manner & good spirit. AW said so himself.

I think it was an individual matter.

Having watched it again & again plus seeing it at a different angle at the game, it just was not a tackle. Shawcross lost possession & just kicked over the ball or “scythed” as the pundit states.

I would love to know what a psychiatrist thinks of his actions because I think it was either just poor technique combined with a dreadful lack of awareness or it was indeed done with a maliciousness/recklessness that he immediately regretted, thus the dis-trout look. If it is the former, what does it say about our standards, as he has just been selected for England?

Has anyone seen Ridgwell clear out the Wigan player & lino with a 2 footed sliding lunge? The clearest of clear red cards- not even a yellow given & it cannot be taken further because the ref says he dealt with it at the time. We play them in a few weeks.

By: Paul C.

Paul C. — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:24:02 +0000

Tee Song – or, to continue your thought:

Number of legs broken 0 – not that kind of player. If you are an Arsenal player you will be suspected of being “that kind of player”.
Number of legs broken 1 – not that kind of player, unless you’re an Arsenal player please go to 5+
Number of legs broken 2 – not that kind of player, but you are an England international. If you are an Arsenal player expect a public lynching.
Number of legs broken 3 – maybe that kind of player, unless you’ve broken an Arsenal players leg, go to 1. If you are an Arsenal player expect a public lynching.
Number of legs broken 4 – that kind of player, unless you’ve broken an Arsenal players leg, go to 1. If you are an Arsenal player expect a public lynching.
Number of legs broken 5+ – you’re definitely that kind of player, expect a call from Sam Allardyce, unless you’ve broken an Arsenal players leg, go to 1. If you are an Arsenal player expect a public lynching.

By: Tee Song

Tee Song — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:10:48 +0000

Actually by current standards, Tony, it’s…

Number of legs broken 0 – not that kind of player, unless you’re William Gallas please go to 4
Number of legs broken 1 – not that kind of player
Number of legs broken 2 – not that kind of player, but you are an England international
Number of legs broken 3 – maybe that kind of player, unless you’ve broken an Arsenal players leg, go to 1
Number of legs broken 4 – that kind of player
Number of legs broken 5 – you’re definitely that kind of player, expect a call from Sam Allardyce

By: Paul C.

Paul C. — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 17:06:38 +0000

Finsbury – just saw your post. Yep, I agree with everything he said. That should be shown to every member of the media trying to absolve Shawcross of blame.

I ask again, has any other player in Football history broken 2 legs?