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	<title>Comments on: Barca: how a once great club has collapsed under the demands of its fans</title>
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	<description>Supporting the manager, supporting the players, playing on the pitch (just once)</description>
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		<title>By: ondgooner</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32921</link>
		<dc:creator>ondgooner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 21:32:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32921</guid>
		<description>Wenger is a Tory in the Maggie Thatcher mould-Don&#039;t spend your way out of a mole hole and do not spend what you do not have- This is a lesson for all especially clubs like Barca who have left their fans with eggs all over their faces!

They remind me of the last govt in Britain or their present govt in Spain which almost went burst or is now about to go burst. Serves them right!! And yet they still want to buy Cesc! What share nonsense. Please Cesc be warned.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wenger is a Tory in the Maggie Thatcher mould-Don&#8217;t spend your way out of a mole hole and do not spend what you do not have- This is a lesson for all especially clubs like Barca who have left their fans with eggs all over their faces!</p>
<p>They remind me of the last govt in Britain or their present govt in Spain which almost went burst or is now about to go burst. Serves them right!! And yet they still want to buy Cesc! What share nonsense. Please Cesc be warned&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32907</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32907</guid>
		<description>A good question. The implication for lower-table sides is much, much worse, see this article I wrote whioch touched on it amongst other things:

http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/06/thepremier-league-where-is-it-all-going-wrong/

They are worse off as TV revenue is a much larger % of turnover for them. Top clubs in the EPL have TV as around 30-40% of revenue, it&#039;s 32.5% for Arsenal. TV money was £73m from my figures, so if you remove that you quite clearly throw a spanner in the works. However TV revenue contributes 39% of Barca&#039;s turnover, so they&#039;d face a much bigger shortfall than we would.

This situation is more likely to befall Barca, as there are issues surrounding their TV companies. They could also face a fall in TV money (as I touch upon in this article) due to  issues of competitive balance in their league (ie there is none). Oh, and they don&#039;t turn much of a profit in this set of accounts I&#039;ve looked at and make a big loss the following year, so they don&#039;t have any flexibility either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A good question. The implication for lower-table sides is much, much worse, see this article I wrote whioch touched on it amongst other things:</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/06/thepremier-league-where-is-it-all-going-wrong/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/2010/06/thepremier-league-where-is-it-all-going-wrong/</a></p>
<p>They are worse off as TV revenue is a much larger % of turnover for them. Top clubs in the EPL have TV as around 30-40% of revenue, it&#8217;s 32.5% for Arsenal. TV money was £73m from my figures, so if you remove that you quite clearly throw a spanner in the works. However TV revenue contributes 39% of Barca&#8217;s turnover, so they&#8217;d face a much bigger shortfall than we would.</p>
<p>This situation is more likely to befall Barca, as there are issues surrounding their TV companies. They could also face a fall in TV money (as I touch upon in this article) due to  issues of competitive balance in their league (ie there is none). Oh, and they don&#8217;t turn much of a profit in this set of accounts I&#8217;ve looked at and make a big loss the following year, so they don&#8217;t have any flexibility either.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32905</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 18:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32905</guid>
		<description>If English clubs lost their TV revenue together, then they would all suffer in the same way, and they would have to cut wages.

But players on four year contracts would demand their wages continue - so there would be a massive fire sale to other leagues.

Arsenal would do better than most for two reasons - their TV audience levels are always high worldwide, and they are not living in debt, so they could adjust more rapidly.  It would be hard for all clubs, but Arsenal less than most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If English clubs lost their TV revenue together, then they would all suffer in the same way, and they would have to cut wages.</p>
<p>But players on four year contracts would demand their wages continue &#8211; so there would be a massive fire sale to other leagues.</p>
<p>Arsenal would do better than most for two reasons &#8211; their TV audience levels are always high worldwide, and they are not living in debt, so they could adjust more rapidly.  It would be hard for all clubs, but Arsenal less than most.</p>
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		<title>By: Homer</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32888</link>
		<dc:creator>Homer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 15:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32888</guid>
		<description>Interesting read.  
Was wondering what impact a hypothetical loss of TV revenue would have on bpl clubs like arsenal?  (recognizing i&#039;m not a finance guy but am now among the accountants, if &quot;revenue&quot; is the wrong word, i&#039;m assured of swift correction.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting read.<br />
Was wondering what impact a hypothetical loss of TV revenue would have on bpl clubs like arsenal?  (recognizing i&#8217;m not a finance guy but am now among the accountants, if &#8220;revenue&#8221; is the wrong word, i&#8217;m assured of swift correction.)</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32885</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32885</guid>
		<description>Kiwigooner: It&#039;s impossible to get a figure for that, though the Swiss Rambler quoted around £16m if i remember correctly.

As the selling club, we can demand whatever terms we like and Barcelona have to meet them, so if we demanded money up-front they wouldn&#039;t have a choice unless they were to walk away completely. Such a demand may push the price down (as it would with commercial deals) though this too rests with us accepting such terms.

In short, if we tell Barca to piss off or pay £70m up-front, they either do so or lose out on the player. even next summer he has four years left on his contract... value only starts to fall after two really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kiwigooner: It&#8217;s impossible to get a figure for that, though the Swiss Rambler quoted around £16m if i remember correctly.</p>
<p>As the selling club, we can demand whatever terms we like and Barcelona have to meet them, so if we demanded money up-front they wouldn&#8217;t have a choice unless they were to walk away completely. Such a demand may push the price down (as it would with commercial deals) though this too rests with us accepting such terms.</p>
<p>In short, if we tell Barca to piss off or pay £70m up-front, they either do so or lose out on the player. even next summer he has four years left on his contract&#8230; value only starts to fall after two really.</p>
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		<title>By: kiwigooner</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32882</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwigooner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32882</guid>
		<description>Great and thought provoking article.

How much do BarceLOANus owe us for previous transfers?

If we sell Cesc I assume there is nothing to prevent us demanding Cash On Delivery?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great and thought provoking article.</p>
<p>How much do BarceLOANus owe us for previous transfers?</p>
<p>If we sell Cesc I assume there is nothing to prevent us demanding Cash On Delivery?</p>
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		<title>By: goonergerry</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32880</link>
		<dc:creator>goonergerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 13:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32880</guid>
		<description>Clerkenwell, Agree with your basic point about economic conditions influencing the impact of debts on football clubs-The level of unemployment in Spain- 4.6m-if it keeps growing must eventually impact on its football teams. However I would not crow too loudly because ,  unemployment in England is set to increase sharply in England  in the next couple of years- and  the impact on demand may well significantly affect your credit rating as well-just look at Ireland- which could ultimately impact on Arsenal- and not just through ticket sales.
For your information not all  economies are in crisis-China is booming, India is growing at over 8%, Australia has not been in recession,- most of these economies do not seem averse to fiscal stimulus packages- unlike Britain. Maybe you just don&#039;t understand Keynesian economics in Britain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clerkenwell, Agree with your basic point about economic conditions influencing the impact of debts on football clubs-The level of unemployment in Spain- 4.6m-if it keeps growing must eventually impact on its football teams. However I would not crow too loudly because ,  unemployment in England is set to increase sharply in England  in the next couple of years- and  the impact on demand may well significantly affect your credit rating as well-just look at Ireland- which could ultimately impact on Arsenal- and not just through ticket sales.<br />
For your information not all  economies are in crisis-China is booming, India is growing at over 8%, Australia has not been in recession,- most of these economies do not seem averse to fiscal stimulus packages- unlike Britain. Maybe you just don&#8217;t understand Keynesian economics in Britain.</p>
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		<title>By: Merlion96</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32877</link>
		<dc:creator>Merlion96</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32877</guid>
		<description>It will be most interesting if that TV company wnet bust the way Setanta did.

Then Barca will have a severe shortfall of funds and will need another bridging loan to tidy up players salaries again.

And if &quot;Black October&quot; rears its ulgy head this year, with many Spanish banks go to the wall, and Barca approaches the bank again for another &quot;bridging loan&quot; in November/December 2010........

Guess what is going to happen in Janary 2011?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be most interesting if that TV company wnet bust the way Setanta did.</p>
<p>Then Barca will have a severe shortfall of funds and will need another bridging loan to tidy up players salaries again.</p>
<p>And if &#8220;Black October&#8221; rears its ulgy head this year, with many Spanish banks go to the wall, and Barca approaches the bank again for another &#8220;bridging loan&#8221; in November/December 2010&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Guess what is going to happen in Janary 2011?</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32873</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32873</guid>
		<description>Clerkenwell Gooner: Good comment. As an industry, football is very resilient to recession but with the depth of the structural problems in Spain&#039;s finance sector and wider economy, they could well start to feel the squeeze.

I don&#039;t believe however that this is the cause of their losses, the reason for that is much, much more simple: transfer spending. Barcelona have been consistently spending more on players than their operating profit, which for me is a level beyond which spending is risky unless substantial player sales occur too. They rely on credit to fund this, and hopefully this credit will dry up as the Spanish bank sector suffers.

Goonergerry: What always confuses me is why these clubs give their players performance bonuses that are greater than what the club earns through actually achieving the success. Naturally, a good cup run either domestically or in europe brings extra TV money and more matchday revenue, but forecast these revenues and ensure bonuses are always less than what they expect to make. This is exactly the same mistake Pompey made: the bonuses for the FA Cup success were far, far more than what the cup run ever made them.

It isn&#039;t rocket science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clerkenwell Gooner: Good comment. As an industry, football is very resilient to recession but with the depth of the structural problems in Spain&#8217;s finance sector and wider economy, they could well start to feel the squeeze.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe however that this is the cause of their losses, the reason for that is much, much more simple: transfer spending. Barcelona have been consistently spending more on players than their operating profit, which for me is a level beyond which spending is risky unless substantial player sales occur too. They rely on credit to fund this, and hopefully this credit will dry up as the Spanish bank sector suffers.</p>
<p>Goonergerry: What always confuses me is why these clubs give their players performance bonuses that are greater than what the club earns through actually achieving the success. Naturally, a good cup run either domestically or in europe brings extra TV money and more matchday revenue, but forecast these revenues and ensure bonuses are always less than what they expect to make. This is exactly the same mistake Pompey made: the bonuses for the FA Cup success were far, far more than what the cup run ever made them.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t rocket science.</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32872</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32872</guid>
		<description>Tommy, assuming you are correct, surely it is concerning that there is so much flexibility in the accounting standards that if they so desired, Barcelona could cover up substantial losses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tommy, assuming you are correct, surely it is concerning that there is so much flexibility in the accounting standards that if they so desired, Barcelona could cover up substantial losses.</p>
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		<title>By: goonergerry</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32871</link>
		<dc:creator>goonergerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32871</guid>
		<description>I agree with Richard B- selling to a virtual bankrupt is not a wise sale at all. The Ibrahimovic transfer- does, however seem to be an extraordinary piece of financial irresponsibility- given Barcelona&#039;s  situation in 2009 - a salary of 9m euros per year and a transfer fee of 65m Euros is clearly not affordable or represents even vaguely reasonable value for money- maybe it was more about keeping up with the galacticos whatever the reason- it was crazy.

What we want is another very successful season for Barcelona- paying the maximum out in salaries and bonuses-at a time when there is a real squeeze on credit in Spain. Barcelona might get closer to the edge than they care to imagine. Somehow though we might not get it- the world cup may have taken too much out of their players.

It does raise the question about the price of success- with a team full of expensive players- can it be afforded? The temptation of many clubs as you have suggested is to try to achieve success at any price. At Arsenal we just have to be patient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Richard B- selling to a virtual bankrupt is not a wise sale at all. The Ibrahimovic transfer- does, however seem to be an extraordinary piece of financial irresponsibility- given Barcelona&#8217;s  situation in 2009 &#8211; a salary of 9m euros per year and a transfer fee of 65m Euros is clearly not affordable or represents even vaguely reasonable value for money- maybe it was more about keeping up with the galacticos whatever the reason- it was crazy.</p>
<p>What we want is another very successful season for Barcelona- paying the maximum out in salaries and bonuses-at a time when there is a real squeeze on credit in Spain. Barcelona might get closer to the edge than they care to imagine. Somehow though we might not get it- the world cup may have taken too much out of their players.</p>
<p>It does raise the question about the price of success- with a team full of expensive players- can it be afforded? The temptation of many clubs as you have suggested is to try to achieve success at any price. At Arsenal we just have to be patient.</p>
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		<title>By: Clerkenwell Gooner</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32870</link>
		<dc:creator>Clerkenwell Gooner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32870</guid>
		<description>Very interesting piece.

My feeling is that Barça&#039;s financial losses have to be put in the context of the problems of the Spanish economy as a whole, since Spain, like many other developed countries around the world (US, UK, Australia, Eire) is suffering badly as the result of the recent collapse of the vast boom in property prices in the past decade, which had the knock-on effect of inflating prices for almost everything else.

As &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8b15be9e-9991-11df-a852-00144feab49a.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt; from today&#039;s FT makes plain, the crisis has a long way yet to run:

&lt;i&gt;Denial is also all too much in evidence with respect to the Spanish banks. The Spanish authorities keep up the pretence that their banking system is sound and &lt;b&gt;they engage in shameless loan-loss forbearance to paper over the system’s difficulties. &lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

This can only end in tears, and 20% unemployment and rising in Spain will undoubtedly have an impact on clubs&#039; ticket sales, sales of merchandise, and ultimately on ad revenues for TV stations.

Debt deflation all the way, baby. Not pretty, not clever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting piece.</p>
<p>My feeling is that Barça&#8217;s financial losses have to be put in the context of the problems of the Spanish economy as a whole, since Spain, like many other developed countries around the world (US, UK, Australia, Eire) is suffering badly as the result of the recent collapse of the vast boom in property prices in the past decade, which had the knock-on effect of inflating prices for almost everything else.</p>
<p>As <a href="http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8b15be9e-9991-11df-a852-00144feab49a.html" rel="nofollow">this article</a> from today&#8217;s FT makes plain, the crisis has a long way yet to run:</p>
<p><i>Denial is also all too much in evidence with respect to the Spanish banks. The Spanish authorities keep up the pretence that their banking system is sound and <b>they engage in shameless loan-loss forbearance to paper over the system’s difficulties. </b></i></p>
<p>This can only end in tears, and 20% unemployment and rising in Spain will undoubtedly have an impact on clubs&#8217; ticket sales, sales of merchandise, and ultimately on ad revenues for TV stations.</p>
<p>Debt deflation all the way, baby. Not pretty, not clever.</p>
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		<title>By: Tommy</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32866</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32866</guid>
		<description>Actually working as an auditor as my living, the massive loss recognition does remind me of a big bath accounting to me. But I haven&#039;t read the full audited report nor do I know how to read Spanish anyway. Back to the topic: big bath accounting is quite a common phenomena in US. When a new chairman or new CEO is appointed, he always demand massive write downs of assets of the company. With smaller base of assets and more or less the same level of profit and revenue, his performance will be viewed favourable. He then can use the result to justify the the lavish bonus he paid himself.

Knowing Rossell and Laporta has a frosty relationship between them. Rossell certainly have the motive to demonize his foe and glorify himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually working as an auditor as my living, the massive loss recognition does remind me of a big bath accounting to me. But I haven&#8217;t read the full audited report nor do I know how to read Spanish anyway. Back to the topic: big bath accounting is quite a common phenomena in US. When a new chairman or new CEO is appointed, he always demand massive write downs of assets of the company. With smaller base of assets and more or less the same level of profit and revenue, his performance will be viewed favourable. He then can use the result to justify the the lavish bonus he paid himself.</p>
<p>Knowing Rossell and Laporta has a frosty relationship between them. Rossell certainly have the motive to demonize his foe and glorify himself.</p>
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		<title>By: theiceman</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32855</link>
		<dc:creator>theiceman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32855</guid>
		<description>Nice post. But let&#039;s be realistic teams like barca real and man u are never foing to go bust. They will always have. People looking to buy them out</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. But let&#8217;s be realistic teams like barca real and man u are never foing to go bust. They will always have. People looking to buy them out</p>
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		<title>By: Richard B</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32845</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32845</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re selling anything it&#039;s always a good idea to make sure that the buyer can actually pay you the money. And if what you&#039;re selling is a player that you actually care about as a person then you equally want to ensure that the buyer will be able to pay his wages for the period of his contract. Spurs didn&#039;t do that when they sold Robbie Keane to Liverpool and ended up having to take him back and farm him out on loan to get back some of the money that they&#039;d &#039;lost&#039;.
By the look of these figures from Barceloaner, Arsenal are potentially saving Cesc from a substantial risk by not selling him -and saving themselves from the risk of not actually being paid the agreed sum. Barca can&#039;t lose face by backing down forever so we can only assume that he will go - but only when all of the money is paid upfront and, maybe, when his own wages are held in escrow for the next x years.
And how will his new team mates feel about that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re selling anything it&#8217;s always a good idea to make sure that the buyer can actually pay you the money. And if what you&#8217;re selling is a player that you actually care about as a person then you equally want to ensure that the buyer will be able to pay his wages for the period of his contract. Spurs didn&#8217;t do that when they sold Robbie Keane to Liverpool and ended up having to take him back and farm him out on loan to get back some of the money that they&#8217;d &#8216;lost&#8217;.<br />
By the look of these figures from Barceloaner, Arsenal are potentially saving Cesc from a substantial risk by not selling him -and saving themselves from the risk of not actually being paid the agreed sum. Barca can&#8217;t lose face by backing down forever so we can only assume that he will go &#8211; but only when all of the money is paid upfront and, maybe, when his own wages are held in escrow for the next x years.<br />
And how will his new team mates feel about that?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/archives/6601/comment-page-1#comment-32842</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jul 2010 07:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.emiratesstadium.info/?p=6601#comment-32842</guid>
		<description>Hahahahahaha

well there ya go! now all those gunners fans that continually complain about not signing over priced ego players...thats what it does! Gunners are a sustainable club and good on them. in the current financial climate many many many people could take a leaf out of this book of financial management! a sustainable economy...imagine that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahahahahaha</p>
<p>well there ya go! now all those gunners fans that continually complain about not signing over priced ego players&#8230;thats what it does! Gunners are a sustainable club and good on them. in the current financial climate many many many people could take a leaf out of this book of financial management! a sustainable economy&#8230;imagine that!</p>
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